[Liz]

Dear Benjamin

Iím feeling incredibly anxious and weighed down and donít know where else to turn apart from to ask you for your insight. I have read and re-read your brilliant book and have resolved many personal issues over the last six months but canít seem to resolve this last key issue; itís like Iíve been stripping away layers and this is the deepest, oldest and hardest to shift. Iíll ramble if thatís ok, in an effort to let you see how my mind is working with this and perhaps to give more away about any underlying issues I have. Iíd really appreciate your time.


I think itís to do with my parents. Every time my mother rings I canít bring myself to answer and I feel anger, resentment and a huge weight of responsibility. If I donít return her call or speak to her I know sheíll be incredibly upset, will not sleep for worrying and will continue to make herself ill. If I ring her Iíll be giving in to her constant pressure and although it feels like Iím behaving like a stubborn child I know that somehow as an adult I need to stop feeling responsible for her feelings and happiness and canít see how to separate myself from these feelings without separating myself from her.

When she hasnít heard from me for a few weeks, sheíll start to ring and leave me messages, quite often during working hours when I canít talk to her and unluckily for her just when Iím eating a meal etc. (I always feel I would speak to her anyway if it were a friend etc but her timing does seem to be particularly inopportune.) Her messages sound incredibly sad and somehow loaded with emotional blackmail. The last time I succombed, mustered all the positivity I could to prevent upsetting her etc, I laughed saying ìhey, Iím at work, Iíve only just come back from holiday, I havenít been ignoring you ñ I didnít even have my mobile phone with meî (which was all true) she laughed back saying ìyouíll regret it when Iím goneî ìyour poor ageing motherî etc, which really wasnít funny and made me feel even more responsible for her happiness.

I think sheís mentally ill. Iím not sure but I know she had a terrible childhood ñ I asked her about it in my last attempt at a bridging conversation, as per your book (which went pretty well and resolved some more superficial issues with her such as lack of attention when my sister needed so much nursing as a child) and she said she couldnít talk about it; she wouldnít want to burden me with it and we shouldnít look back, some things are too terrible. I know her father died the day after I was born of a heart attack. My dad tells me he got into such a terrible rage chasing after the postman for failing to deliver his newspaper that he dropped down dead on the spot. My dad also tells me he should have known from my grandfather what my mother would be like. I know my mumís brother left the country never to return when he was 17 and that my mumís sister is a complete wreck ñ aged 20 years before her time, married a man 40 years older than her, according to mum spends her whole time looking back. On top of my mum dealing with her father (her relationship with her mother was great by the way ñ she always tells me she couldnít get by without her mum and their great chats and daily phone calls) she had to deal with a still born first baby, my older brother, 10 years before she had me ñ they couldnít handle trying again until then. She had me when she was in her late 30s and called me Elizabeth because it means ìgift from Godî in Hebrew. She tells me this regularly.

All the way through my childhood I remember her having this terrible rage and being terribly irrational, highly strung; in my dadís words ëneuroticí. I thought perhaps just in my teenage years but actually remember (on my timeline from your book) incidences as far back as 7 and 8 when I argued with her terribly. She remembered me standing on the landing, having wet myself aged 7 or younger in our last conversation about me not getting much attention after my sister was born and said she remembered feeling terrible afterwards as she was told by the doctor that it was child cystitis and not my fault. I remember standing on the landing and can picture it but canít remember what she said, only standing on the receiving end. I also remember an incident when I was around 7 when she was nursing my sister (born 3 years after me; had terrible eczema for years, scratching herself to bits at night) and my cousin was over from America (very exciting). I wanted or needed something from her, maybe attention and she shouted, I donít have any memory at all of what she said, just of me bellowing in anger ìI canít hear youÖÖ!!!!!!î. To this she took me to the ear doctor and it turned out that my hearing was slightly under par and I had to have an operation to fit grommits, which I then had replaced 2 or 3 times and couldnít swim or get my ears wet for years. That taught me! I then remember an incident on holiday in Greece when I was 8, when the car hit a rock and almost plunged us off a cliff. We were all shocked and choked but my dadís an amazing driver and got the car under control really quickly but my mum screamed and let rip and we all got annoyed with her for being so overreactional. I remember feeling annoyed with her for being immature and saying something like Oh for goodness sake mum, weíre ok, we didnít actually go off the cliff Ö. Sheíd get annoyed with my dad for not showing any emotion at all. Iíve since learned that he canít cope with getting involved (which weíve talked about being a problem for me) as if he does his relationship will fail as she canít be reasoned with, is totally irrational and when sheís in a rage or emotional breakdown doesnít seem to have any awareness sheís doing it.

When I talked to her in my big ìbuilding bridgesî conversation post reading your book, I mentioned the ear thing but she had absolutely no recollection and never realised the true nature of what happened. In fact the only time she remembered getting angry was the cystitis incident, which I hadnít remembered.

I asked her in depth about my childhood and we watched lots of home cine films dating back to my early days. Apparently she stayed at home just me and her alone for my first 3 years. I didnít go to nursery until I was 3/3?, after my sister was born. I was ìgood as goldî and we played together and with her being a teacher I rocketed through learning things and was several years ahead with my reading age by the time I did start nursery. I remember my sister being born and helping mum lots and my dad never being around and only getting home from work very late. I used to help him wallpaper and garden and build things and do meccano with him, I think in order to get the attention from him I needed and have since talked to him about this and feel happy Iíve resolved his abdication of familial responsibility in some way ñ he was just off earning the money and managing 150 plus people in a very demanding job.

My sister was a ìcomplete pickleî and Iím pretty sure got all the attention, especially with her eczema, which took up all of mumís time. I was packed off to nursery, where I didnít fit in at all and found it really hard to play with the other children. Mum worried and pushed me and I remember her trying to persuade me to come out from behind a chair in the living room at my own birthday party (I think) where I didnít know how to interact and she was telling me to get on with it somehow.

She was always incredibly caring and loving and telling me how wonderful I was and how I could achieve anything and is still very much like that. Both my parents are devout Christians (in fact have had the church come to our house in Bible Studies every week for as long as I remember) and spend 99% of their time caring for other people, taking in refugees, cooking meals for ill neighbours, finding schools for children of immigrants theyíre helping through the church etc ñ theyíre quite amazing and I share a lot of their values about caring for and helping people and forgiving people and self-sacrifice for others through love. They were always incredibly loving towards me and were devastated when I was upset about something or was going off the rails. I care deeply about them and hate being the cause of their distress.

I remember starting to argue with them very early about not wanting to go to church and not wanting to join in with the childrenís groups at church. I had to sit exams on the New and Old Testament and got confirmed with a close friend when I was 11 ñ I think just to appease them and because Kate was just doing it for the hell of it so it didnít really matter.

Mum didnít understand when I fell for my friend Bill up the road when I was little ñ I think 8 or 9 ñ he left to go back to America and I realised I was in love with him and wanted to tell him in my first letter to him. She said I couldnít possibly love him and I think tried to stop me getting hurt but I fought her and posted the letter anyway and realised that sheíd never understand me (pretty significant memory that came back really easily). Both mum and I think dad then continuously didnít understand when I started ìgoing off the railsî ñ not wanting to go to church, wanting to stay out late, rebelling, arguing. The obvious rebelling came when I was at my senior school (however shouting at my mum re ear incident so young suggests the arguments werenít a teenage thing at all and that Iíd been isolated from them from a much earlier age) - Iíd been underchallenged in my junior school (run by nuns) and was getting 100% in all my exams and asked to go somewhere more challenging. The schools to choose from one seemed to make them unsure Iíd cope as had entrance exam etc so I pushed to go to that one. Turns out from recent conversation that actually all the girls there were children of extremely successful parents and therefore quite messed up as pretty much absent fathers, broken homes etc so they were doubtful for thatÖ Anyway I went there and got in easily as test showed I was in top 2% in the country for my IQ.

I had a really traumatic time and was bullied terribly by extremely precocious girls. I forgave them as Iíd been taught and understood that they were obviously having a harder time than me otherwise they wouldnít need to be so horrible and went out of my way to be a good friend to them. In fact I spent most of 7 years there befriending my bullies and became their confidante and closest friend to turn to but was also often left out, set up, deliberately stabbed in the back etc. I took all this like a rock and I think having learned not to show emotions with mum because they upset her so much, compounded all of this with similar trauma at school and really learned not to show anything of myself. I realise know I donít actually know who I am at all and have become so practised and second guessing other people to make sure I can protect myself against them that I successfully show nothing and get on ìbrilliantlyî with everyone and Iím loved by everyone that meets me but somehow never listened to, quite often not noticed, often forgotten, always respected and always needed.

All of this seems pretty classic. I am extremely self-aware, painfully self-conscious in fact and can now see where the anxiety, lack of sense of self, lack of self-confidence and yet strength, assertiveness, determination, self-righteousness (ouch) etc come from. I know I have a lot of suppressed anger and sadness and am currently bursting into tears very easily as I tell my conscious that Iím upset over past issues etc ñ seems to be time for it all to come outÖ I have ridden the storm of being the equivalent of a Christian in an Islamic house, being smothered and then bullied by my poor overstretched mother (really could have done with emotional support from my father or at least his presence ñ sad he always felt the study or work was safer!), being bullied constantly by extremely covert and bitchy girls (whose intelligence made them worse), coming home only to have my parents devastated by my irreligious choices and understandings and motivations, learning very quickly that if I showed I was upset I would upset my mum and that if I demanded attention I would get a ball of wrath thrown at me ñ obviously I learned to disappear, buried myself in books, rebelled like crazy (none of which my parents know about ñ I just fought them to go out most of the time ñ it was after I was out that they donít know what I got up to ñ seems were just choices at the opposite end of the scale to being a sensible Christian daughter rather than anything I wanted to punish them with or throw in their faces ñ just knew I wasnít anything like them, didnít share any of their values and couldnít learn anything from them). I became ìstrongî and ìindependentî and grew up incredibly young. I remember friends as much as 5 and 10 years older than me when I was 18 ish all telling me how they never think of me as any younger and saying how amazingly wise I was for my years. I know now that this ìstrengthî was just external appearance/cover for my incredible vulnerability and sadness.

I am left feeling terribly responsible for upsetting my mother beyond repair that Iím not ìsafeî and ìhappyî and ìsettledî in the way that she perceives I should be to be happy. I know she prays for me every day as she is terrified that Iím going to hell. She desperately wants a close relationship with me like she had with her mother and I canít give it to her because I canít be myself with her because I donít share her Christianity and pretty much everything Iím into, even your book, raises doubts in her mind and ìworriesî her. If I talk to her I have to hide most things from her as Iím living in sin, drink alcohol, occasionally take drugs, have a passion for self-development (of the ìnon-Christianityî sort in her eyes I suppose) and alternative therapy.. Of course I could chat to her about the weather and what sheís been doing etc and have done so for years. The trouble is she knows Iím not confiding in her, sharing my deeper thoughts, being truly close to her and still hankers after more from me, presumably so that weíre as close as she was with her mum. Her advice is all totally coloured by religion and everything I confide in her about worries her inordinately so I canít ìshareî without it damaging me hearing how much Iím upsetting her and worrying her - I can tell in her voice and donít think Iím projecting this and am also told of the fallout by my dad who notices her not sleeping for the next week, has her ìgoing on at himî constantly about they must do something, itís terrible, donít you care about your daughter, we must intervene etc. In the past she has intervened regularly, writing to my first long term boyfriends grandparents (his sole elderly carers) and telling them that he was smoking pot and they thought they should know etc ñ this damaged them irrepairibly ñ they really didnít need to know, it really wasnít an issue. Of course these kind of interventions havenít encouraged me. Reading the Road Less Travelled etc over the years, I think sheís slightly narcissistic and whatever I go through she feels herself going through in an effort to empathise or through ìloveî when actually she takes on my feelings and has them herself, only imagining them to be much worse and then continues to feel them when I no longer feel them. Itís awful. I canít give her what she needs to make her feel better, i.e. a loving, happy, christian daughter just down the road, on the phone all the time, laughing and sharing feelings with her, including her in their life etc. I canít not give her what she needs as it kills me all the time feeling this pressure that I should be phoning her, talking to her, that Iím killing her by not being in her life enough and by leaving her to imagine not that Iím busy and not back from holiday yet but that Iíve dropped off a cliff or have had a nervous breakdown and havenít told her about it. I really love her and want to resolve things but I donít know where the religion ends and she begins and how to have a relationship with someone with such a generation gap and who I canít share anything with but needs me to share everything with.

My dad suggests I do it like my sister and talk to her all the time and just laugh it off and tell her not to be so silly when she gets stressed about everything you say. She seems to manage it quite well but in the background has had terrible panic attacks, heart palpitations, still terrible eczema and is stuck living just down the road from her and ringing her every single day ñ sheís still totally dependent on my parents with all things like ringing the doctor, filling in forms, buying her house etc and I see her squashed by my mother having lost all her individuality, bounce etc. All she wants is for me to make it up with mum. Iím told by mum that Catherine misses me terribly and really loves her big sister and wishes she could see more of me and just feel even more guilty for keeping them at a distance. (I left home at 18 and have only managed to go back once for a year by spending all my time out or in my room. I live 150 miles from home.)

What should I do? Iíve tried talking to mum over the years saying when she rings me all the time it makes me feel hassled and that Iím fine and I wish she wouldnít worry so much. Since our last big chat Iíve tried laughing with her about it and said look I havenít fallen off a cliff, I have just been away, I promise Iím ok etc but then she says please ring me soon youíll regret it when Iím gone and I feel crushed by responsibility for her feelings again. Dad and I had a really good talk on the back of your book and are finally talking about our feelings to each other. He had a terrible time admitting his fears that I donít come home because of how mum is, feeling terribly disloyal for saying so and asking me to keep it between us as it had already almost broken their relationship and he couldnít cope with the fallout of her temper again if she knew weíd taken sides against her etc. He felt that her refusal to let me go and to get on with my life and her constant hounding with preventing me from coming home and sadly he and I both miss out on a relationship as a result. He could understand my fears that Iíd come home, open up and then sheíd either throw it back in my face getting so worked up into a temper over the ìhard time I was havingî or saying but ìwhy Lizzy?î ìwhy do you feel like thatî ìwhy arenít you just happyî etc. He agreed that itís a terrible problem and his only suggestion was that I try talking to her like my sister and just laugh it off/nip it in the bud with humour. I donít find it funny enough!

I would normally cut her off but she loves me so and itís not her fault that sheís like it ñ how can I leave her to collapse into a worrying or upset mess over the disastrous relationship with her daughter and carry on knowing Iím doing that to her. I thought earlier that perhaps they also successfully instilled religious guilt, to top off my emotional guilt. I feel so trapped and confused I feel itís making me ill. I canít carry on with my current stress levels. I feel so responsible. I know Iím not responsible for her feelings but still feel Iím leaving her to rot if I get on with my life and canít live with myself. I donít know what a normal relationship with parents is, how often people normally see them, talk to them, what they confide in them about, share with them. I suspect I have one with my dad if my mumís out of the picture e.g. occasionally ring for a chat, to ask something about my computer, find out how his holiday was, or he rings me with news.

Help?

Yours Elizabeth

PS Iím so sorry this became over 5 pages! It doesnít feel very fair dumping such an epic on you! So much for hoping this would be a rational, intelligent explanationÖ

[Benjamin Fry]

It is easier to type into the abyss than to be honest with your thoughts and feelings with a parent. The internet won't reject you, or get angry with you, and therefore won't repeat the trauma.

Essentially you have arrived at the hard place that comes to all of us who recover from our adapted selves in the end. You are no longer compatible with the system that your family adopted to cope with the least emotionally healthy member. Now either you give (and end up feeling like nothing, anxious in your void), or they give (and then you might end up with nothing too).

The only way forward is to have faith in yourself and your process, to speak really honestly from the heart, and to try to have compassion and respect for others while you do it (but not worry about their reactions). It is usually a complete disaster at first, so don't expect miracles, but it sounds like you have a moving dynamic in the family so I suspect you can get through it.

[Erika]

Im sorry to say but your situation with your mother sounds very similar to mine. She blackmails me emotionally all the time and i feel that im responsible for her happiness because if i ignore he she seems to be going crazy (not sleeping etc). Not sure if you want to a excange a few tips in pm.

[Liz]

Dear Benjamin

Thank you so much for incredibly concise and insightful reply. I'll push on...

In the mean time, I'm struggling to remember some of my childhood 'events' to be able to unfreeze the associated emotions. I have quite a few gaps in my early childhood memories, e.g. can't remember my mother's pregnancy with my younger sister, or my baby sister at all (I can remember the time e.g. my father taking me to a friends while he went to the hospital to see her) and am sure there's some associated trauma to come out - do you have you any tips for accessing these 'blocked' memories?

I've been reading alot about 'body work', e.g. myofascial release, as my next move and wonder if you can recommend anything?

Thank you again for your help.

Liz

[Liz]

Hi Erika
Thank you for your reply; I'm still surprised how much it helps knowing you're not the only one in your situation. I'd love to exchange some tips - you mentioned pm - did you just mean afternoon or another area of the forum or something? (Sorry if I'm being dense!) How are you coping with your situation at the moment? Hope to hear from you.
Liz

[Benjamin Fry]

I'm sorry but I have nothing that I can add to bodywork other than to try to do it in conjunction with some cognitive work.

[tony]

I have had therapy and I am up to the part where I don't feel comfortable being near any of my immediate family anymore.

I can no wlive without anxiety, yet if I return home, within an hour or 2 I am back to feeling how I used to, yet if I go someplace different I am usually free of all my anxiety,

I didn't realise this was common but I must admit I kind of feel sad about having to leave my family behind just so I can be free of anxiety, so I am really struggling with this.

[harvey]

elizabeth


eliz your a moden self centred woman, who doesnt want to be surrounded by oldness, guilt and death, which old people have buckets load of.




Mother issues, 99.5% of the world has mother issues, thats why psychology is such a rich practise.

Well you have options,

1- become grateful about your life, working out that others have it worst,
2- Avoid her, put a couple of countries between yourself.
3- Drug yourself from the pain.
4- rember that she only has a few years left
5- Maybe your mother needs a life.
6- maybe you 2 can never talk to each other cause of your past, some people will always hate each other.
7- remeber old people are always good for borrowin money
8- when they die you get their stuff, and money.. so its only a convo once a week. Suck it up


Humans dont like pain, and the feeling of pain, so your avoiding the pain.

[Benjamin Fry]

Problems with parents are obviously quite common. The trick is to recognise what is who. The "problem" is in you, and it is often at its most extreme when around your parents. At this point the parent is triggering something not because of their actual person but because of their role.

The mother and the father are often given the role that a stone-age man might have ascribed to nature and the gods respectively. An instinctive connection with these larger ideas or entities would leave the actual mother and father relatively in the clear, because then they become just people a bit like us, only slightly older.

Usually few people care for your well-being more than your parents, so give it a chance. If you are really struggling then do some work on what nature and god really means for you and see if you can get your mother and father respectively a bit of room to be just people.