Hi Janie,
You're not alone! When I was younger I used to fake accidents and illnesses, never knew why! I once had my appendix out as I made such a good job of it! I can't explain, now I absolutely hate it and anyone else who is ill, I have no sympathy, I guess I view them all as being pathetic. Self loathing takes many forms.
Listen to Gareth - he makes sense and try to love yourself - you are worthwhile exactly as you are!
Sarah
Liar
#17 Guest_Janie_*
Posted 06 June 2005 - 09:56 AM
Thank you very much guys for all your responses, I have taken a day or two to mull over what you've all said.
Gareth - in your last post you mention that self-examination can be very enticing. I agree with you. I have spent that last week alternately feeling depressed, confused and angry with myself. I have been constantly questioning myself and asking "what is wrong with me?". Do you know what....I feel exhausted trying to self analyze myself - and I think you are absolutely correct, it can be difficult getting out of that cycle.
T - I think what you are saying is that I have to be careful of splitting my personality into the person I don't like and the person I want to become. Unless I'm misunderstanding you, I think you are telling me to accept all of me as a whole, and deal with that, rather than segregating the parts I don't like. If I can accept "me" as a whole person, then see that there are good bits as well as bad bits - and accept them all, all dimensions of them. Good, bad and indifferent.
Quentin - Thanks for shooting from the hip - sometimes I feel I need to hear people's gut reaction - and the fact that it wasn't negative is a great help to me. You are tight in that it is not rpemeditated. In no way am I trying to cause other people any harm at all, even though I am aware that indirectly it does. It is purely a selfish thing to get love/attention/sympathy whatever. not sure yet, but i guess therapy will help me figure it out.
One thing that strikes me on here, is that everybody ahs such real problems and difficulties to face, and sometimes I think that I am wasting all your time and do not deserve the attention you are giving me. I am really grateful for all your advice and support - I guess trying to come to terms with somehting that I feel is so ashaming, is going to be an uphill struggle.
Sarah - you said something that I can identify with. because I am so aware of my own faults, I can not abide dishonesty in others. It really bugs me, and although I don't view them as pathetic, it certainly strikes a chord in me. Hypocritical or what!
Anyway - I've gotta run for now. Thanks again
jc x
Gareth - in your last post you mention that self-examination can be very enticing. I agree with you. I have spent that last week alternately feeling depressed, confused and angry with myself. I have been constantly questioning myself and asking "what is wrong with me?". Do you know what....I feel exhausted trying to self analyze myself - and I think you are absolutely correct, it can be difficult getting out of that cycle.
T - I think what you are saying is that I have to be careful of splitting my personality into the person I don't like and the person I want to become. Unless I'm misunderstanding you, I think you are telling me to accept all of me as a whole, and deal with that, rather than segregating the parts I don't like. If I can accept "me" as a whole person, then see that there are good bits as well as bad bits - and accept them all, all dimensions of them. Good, bad and indifferent.
Quentin - Thanks for shooting from the hip - sometimes I feel I need to hear people's gut reaction - and the fact that it wasn't negative is a great help to me. You are tight in that it is not rpemeditated. In no way am I trying to cause other people any harm at all, even though I am aware that indirectly it does. It is purely a selfish thing to get love/attention/sympathy whatever. not sure yet, but i guess therapy will help me figure it out.
One thing that strikes me on here, is that everybody ahs such real problems and difficulties to face, and sometimes I think that I am wasting all your time and do not deserve the attention you are giving me. I am really grateful for all your advice and support - I guess trying to come to terms with somehting that I feel is so ashaming, is going to be an uphill struggle.
Sarah - you said something that I can identify with. because I am so aware of my own faults, I can not abide dishonesty in others. It really bugs me, and although I don't view them as pathetic, it certainly strikes a chord in me. Hypocritical or what!
Anyway - I've gotta run for now. Thanks again
jc x
#18
Gareth 
- Advanced Member
-
- Group: Members
- Posts: 64
- Joined: 13-April 05
Posted 06 June 2005 - 10:37 AM
The fact that you can remember exactly what happened when you first lied is really good. Expecially the feelings - they will become much more important as time goes on. Hold onto them and recall them, you will need to use them to understand things fully.
You are right - don't confuse a little bit of childhood attention seeking (which we've all done) with a bigger problem with lying later in life. DO remember though, that lying is not the root problem here. It is a symptom. Yes, it is a troublesome symptom that causes you misery and upset. But remember that it is only a symptom, just like my anxiety symptoms cause me misery and upset, they are not the root problem. This is an important point and really hard to fully see when you are reaching for a quick solution to your problems (which we all do).
Each of us are different and each of us will find our desire for a better life in different ways. For you, a behaviour is involved. For me, an internal feeling is more predominent. We mustn't confuse the behaviour/feeling with the intention within our unconscious mind, just like we mustn't judge the process of healing by its results. You are not seeking to lie to people to upset them or yourself, your subconscious mind is seeking to remind you that there is something that you need or needed that you did not get and are still not getting. Part of you is unable to move on, probably for some very good reason. Only when you root out the thing that you are unable to move on from will your behaviour change and you will find some peace of mind.
The other thing I am thinking here is about "systems of coping". When everything went wrong for me when I was 12 years old, I developed a system of coping that was essentially shutdown. My subconscious mind closed my emotional self because to be open to emotions at that time would have been far too dangerous - as an immature youngster I would not have been able to cope emotionally with everything that was going on. My subconscious mind shut me down and therefore protected me from potentially even more damage.
The problem with this is that it only works up to a point. Once shutdown, I stayed shutdown, even when out of real emotional danger, and well into adulthood. Breaking down in March of this year was about that system of coping breaking down and no longer being effective. I have been "awoken" because my subconscious mind (which, remember, has a higher agenda than our conscious mind, and wants peace and true happiness for us), felt that a better way of being was available and achievable for me. The route to get there is difficult and uncomfortable, but if the process is to be believed in, then the end results will be magnificent.
For you, something very significant happened the first time you lied, and probably in subsequent times as well, that made part of you believe that lying was getting you something that you needed. Lying (and everything that comes with it) became your system of coping. What is happening now is that that system is breaking down. You are about to enter a new phase of your life, the happiest of your life, and a big part of you wants something better, wants a better future, a better you. It is no coincidence that you came to this forum at a time when you are about to be married. You are nudging and edging yourself into a better dialogue with yourself, and with parts of yourself that have closed off to you for a very long time.
The link between lying and being found out is a very interesting one as well. Particularly as a child, you knew that you would be found out. This rings all sorts of comparisons with people who self-harm and then make only very feeble attempts to disguise the results, and people who make attempts at suicide which will be easily found out and in all probability will not work. A cry for help perhaps? A cry for attention, certainly. Look at the effectiveness of your system up to now. Has it worked? Has lying provided you with peace of mind and a good emotional way of being. No. Of course not. You are, in a very fundamental and deep way, completely aware of this. A big part of you seeks to change it, to change your system, and to change your life for the better.
The other thing from your last message that rings out for me is a general sense of chaos in your childhood home. This is what I hear from your short description - Your father and mother providing you with two very different models of parenthood and the confusion that this would have caused; your father the strict provider, your mother the over-relaxed (perhaps emotionally absent?) nurturer. Being "shouted down" when wanting to speak and express yourself, your voice not being properly heard. The importance in your family placed on being "right" over being loved or being listened to. The importance of rules and intelligence and dominance over acting as a family unit and working together for common goals. The emotional distance between people. How does all that sound to you?
And then you go straight on to talk about self esteem. The two are as intertwined and linked as two things possibly could be. I would urge you to express yourself. Write here, write creatively, paint, stand in awe of nature, do some gardening, go to speak to a counsellor or psychotherapist. Express yourself and who you really are in a way that will not be shouted down, in a forum that is not about competition and abstract notions of intelligence. I also urge you to read Benjamin Fry's book for the intellect side - its important to know the processes involved here.
Just look at what happens when you come on here and express yourself. Part of you tells yourself that you are a fraud to do so, that your story is not as legitimate as someone else's. This is part of the system that you have been using to suppress your trauma, to hold down whatever it is inside of you that you are afraid of, the things that part of you feels you will find it hard to deal with. These are precisely the things that you need to face. Remember that the system that you have now doesn't work, so what have you got to lose in tinkering with it a bit?
I personally don't think you're having a breakdown. But perhaps you're having a breakthrough.
If you want to talk more here please do. Express yourself. Once you do so you will find it consistently surprising and magical how open people are to the real you, and how every day you will come to find a new love for yourself and an acceptance of your past, present, and future. You are completely and totally worth everything you are doing for yourself and more.
You are right - don't confuse a little bit of childhood attention seeking (which we've all done) with a bigger problem with lying later in life. DO remember though, that lying is not the root problem here. It is a symptom. Yes, it is a troublesome symptom that causes you misery and upset. But remember that it is only a symptom, just like my anxiety symptoms cause me misery and upset, they are not the root problem. This is an important point and really hard to fully see when you are reaching for a quick solution to your problems (which we all do).
Each of us are different and each of us will find our desire for a better life in different ways. For you, a behaviour is involved. For me, an internal feeling is more predominent. We mustn't confuse the behaviour/feeling with the intention within our unconscious mind, just like we mustn't judge the process of healing by its results. You are not seeking to lie to people to upset them or yourself, your subconscious mind is seeking to remind you that there is something that you need or needed that you did not get and are still not getting. Part of you is unable to move on, probably for some very good reason. Only when you root out the thing that you are unable to move on from will your behaviour change and you will find some peace of mind.
The other thing I am thinking here is about "systems of coping". When everything went wrong for me when I was 12 years old, I developed a system of coping that was essentially shutdown. My subconscious mind closed my emotional self because to be open to emotions at that time would have been far too dangerous - as an immature youngster I would not have been able to cope emotionally with everything that was going on. My subconscious mind shut me down and therefore protected me from potentially even more damage.
The problem with this is that it only works up to a point. Once shutdown, I stayed shutdown, even when out of real emotional danger, and well into adulthood. Breaking down in March of this year was about that system of coping breaking down and no longer being effective. I have been "awoken" because my subconscious mind (which, remember, has a higher agenda than our conscious mind, and wants peace and true happiness for us), felt that a better way of being was available and achievable for me. The route to get there is difficult and uncomfortable, but if the process is to be believed in, then the end results will be magnificent.
For you, something very significant happened the first time you lied, and probably in subsequent times as well, that made part of you believe that lying was getting you something that you needed. Lying (and everything that comes with it) became your system of coping. What is happening now is that that system is breaking down. You are about to enter a new phase of your life, the happiest of your life, and a big part of you wants something better, wants a better future, a better you. It is no coincidence that you came to this forum at a time when you are about to be married. You are nudging and edging yourself into a better dialogue with yourself, and with parts of yourself that have closed off to you for a very long time.
The link between lying and being found out is a very interesting one as well. Particularly as a child, you knew that you would be found out. This rings all sorts of comparisons with people who self-harm and then make only very feeble attempts to disguise the results, and people who make attempts at suicide which will be easily found out and in all probability will not work. A cry for help perhaps? A cry for attention, certainly. Look at the effectiveness of your system up to now. Has it worked? Has lying provided you with peace of mind and a good emotional way of being. No. Of course not. You are, in a very fundamental and deep way, completely aware of this. A big part of you seeks to change it, to change your system, and to change your life for the better.
The other thing from your last message that rings out for me is a general sense of chaos in your childhood home. This is what I hear from your short description - Your father and mother providing you with two very different models of parenthood and the confusion that this would have caused; your father the strict provider, your mother the over-relaxed (perhaps emotionally absent?) nurturer. Being "shouted down" when wanting to speak and express yourself, your voice not being properly heard. The importance in your family placed on being "right" over being loved or being listened to. The importance of rules and intelligence and dominance over acting as a family unit and working together for common goals. The emotional distance between people. How does all that sound to you?
And then you go straight on to talk about self esteem. The two are as intertwined and linked as two things possibly could be. I would urge you to express yourself. Write here, write creatively, paint, stand in awe of nature, do some gardening, go to speak to a counsellor or psychotherapist. Express yourself and who you really are in a way that will not be shouted down, in a forum that is not about competition and abstract notions of intelligence. I also urge you to read Benjamin Fry's book for the intellect side - its important to know the processes involved here.
Just look at what happens when you come on here and express yourself. Part of you tells yourself that you are a fraud to do so, that your story is not as legitimate as someone else's. This is part of the system that you have been using to suppress your trauma, to hold down whatever it is inside of you that you are afraid of, the things that part of you feels you will find it hard to deal with. These are precisely the things that you need to face. Remember that the system that you have now doesn't work, so what have you got to lose in tinkering with it a bit?
I personally don't think you're having a breakdown. But perhaps you're having a breakthrough.
If you want to talk more here please do. Express yourself. Once you do so you will find it consistently surprising and magical how open people are to the real you, and how every day you will come to find a new love for yourself and an acceptance of your past, present, and future. You are completely and totally worth everything you are doing for yourself and more.
#19 Guest_Janie_*
Posted 07 June 2005 - 01:47 PM
Gareth,
I reiterate that you should really go into this as a profession. I don't know what it was about your last post, but you certainly struck a raw nerve, and I sat down after reading it and cried and cried. I am feeling emotionally very vulnerable at the moment, especially (or perhaps because of) the wedding coming up - in just a few days in fact (eeek!).
I think the best thing for me to do right now is concentrate on the wedding and get through that in one piece - It is very important to me that I can give 100% of me on saturday.
I have been looking at the fact that I feel like I have gone through a trauma of some kind, even though i can't identify what that is. I go back to what i said about it being difficult to distinguish between my actual feelings, and those which I get from lying. I don't know if I feel like this because i have lied about it, or because that's how i really feel. I think I need to recondition myself to try and learn what is truly going on. And I think that's going to b ehard.
What was difficult for me from your last post was the comments you made about my parents. I don't know how I could cope with learning that they had some part to play in this. I love and respect them very much, both as parents and as people. In fact, and whilst I'm being honest about things, its terrifies me to think that may be the case. I'm scared that it will alter the way I feel about them, will I lose my respect for them. My father in particular.
My family do not talk about our problems - ever. My younger sister self-harmed all the way through her exams from age 16 and GCSEs to age 23 and her finals, and I never found out about it until recently, and only because one of her friends told me. My older sister suffered a miscarraige early last year (I think I mentioned that before), but the feelings that we all experienced at the loss, were not talked about. I always put that down to my parents protecting us and shielding us from the terrible things out there. I don't feel that I ever lacked in love from them.
I always put my lack of self esteem down to just being a naturally non-confident person - I mean some people are just like that aren't they? Being shouted down amongst my stronger brother and sisters I think has made me worry about what people think of me when I express myself. I constantly worry about not being liked, and how I am perceived, even to the extent of agreeing with them over issues that I may not. I don't know why I am afraid to say what I am thinking, or to confront situations when I am angry. The phrase feeling emotionally immature comes into my head. Is this all linked in with the self esteem issue?
I feel that I am a well liked person - but do they like me - or do the like the lies? Perhaps that's why I don't have the self-esteem, because I don't know how I will be perceived once I reveal what I am really like - and by that, i don't mean owning up to the lies, but just acting as myself, and reacting to everyday situations without lying.
I think you are right gareth - I am not having a breakdown. Not sure about the breakthrough bit, mind. I think I am looking into myself too deeply and not necessarily liking what I am seeing, which is depressing me.
Well - onwards and upwards. i apologise for continuing this already very long thread - it must be boring people already. I can only say that it is very refreshing for me to come onto the forum and speak the truth, and release some of the questions I have about myself. Circumstances at the moment mean I can't get to a therapist until July, so please forgive me for my outpourings here.
Gareth, please don't feel obliged to answer, you have given me so much help already, and this must be taking up your time replying to me, especially when you are dealing with your own feelings at the moment. Thanks for everything.
One last thing i wanted to say for now, is that I have been totally honest apart from one thing on this forum, and I don't know what I'm afraid of by not revealing it. My name is Rachel.
Best regards to everyone
R x
I reiterate that you should really go into this as a profession. I don't know what it was about your last post, but you certainly struck a raw nerve, and I sat down after reading it and cried and cried. I am feeling emotionally very vulnerable at the moment, especially (or perhaps because of) the wedding coming up - in just a few days in fact (eeek!).
I think the best thing for me to do right now is concentrate on the wedding and get through that in one piece - It is very important to me that I can give 100% of me on saturday.
I have been looking at the fact that I feel like I have gone through a trauma of some kind, even though i can't identify what that is. I go back to what i said about it being difficult to distinguish between my actual feelings, and those which I get from lying. I don't know if I feel like this because i have lied about it, or because that's how i really feel. I think I need to recondition myself to try and learn what is truly going on. And I think that's going to b ehard.
What was difficult for me from your last post was the comments you made about my parents. I don't know how I could cope with learning that they had some part to play in this. I love and respect them very much, both as parents and as people. In fact, and whilst I'm being honest about things, its terrifies me to think that may be the case. I'm scared that it will alter the way I feel about them, will I lose my respect for them. My father in particular.
My family do not talk about our problems - ever. My younger sister self-harmed all the way through her exams from age 16 and GCSEs to age 23 and her finals, and I never found out about it until recently, and only because one of her friends told me. My older sister suffered a miscarraige early last year (I think I mentioned that before), but the feelings that we all experienced at the loss, were not talked about. I always put that down to my parents protecting us and shielding us from the terrible things out there. I don't feel that I ever lacked in love from them.
I always put my lack of self esteem down to just being a naturally non-confident person - I mean some people are just like that aren't they? Being shouted down amongst my stronger brother and sisters I think has made me worry about what people think of me when I express myself. I constantly worry about not being liked, and how I am perceived, even to the extent of agreeing with them over issues that I may not. I don't know why I am afraid to say what I am thinking, or to confront situations when I am angry. The phrase feeling emotionally immature comes into my head. Is this all linked in with the self esteem issue?
I feel that I am a well liked person - but do they like me - or do the like the lies? Perhaps that's why I don't have the self-esteem, because I don't know how I will be perceived once I reveal what I am really like - and by that, i don't mean owning up to the lies, but just acting as myself, and reacting to everyday situations without lying.
I think you are right gareth - I am not having a breakdown. Not sure about the breakthrough bit, mind. I think I am looking into myself too deeply and not necessarily liking what I am seeing, which is depressing me.
Well - onwards and upwards. i apologise for continuing this already very long thread - it must be boring people already. I can only say that it is very refreshing for me to come onto the forum and speak the truth, and release some of the questions I have about myself. Circumstances at the moment mean I can't get to a therapist until July, so please forgive me for my outpourings here.
Gareth, please don't feel obliged to answer, you have given me so much help already, and this must be taking up your time replying to me, especially when you are dealing with your own feelings at the moment. Thanks for everything.
One last thing i wanted to say for now, is that I have been totally honest apart from one thing on this forum, and I don't know what I'm afraid of by not revealing it. My name is Rachel.
Best regards to everyone
R x
#20
Gareth
- Advanced Member
-
- Group: Members
- Posts: 64
- Joined: 13-April 05
Posted 07 June 2005 - 03:10 PM
Rachel,
Just some quick responses as I think you are right - it is time for you to concentrate on this big fabulous step in your life, and how wonderful it is going to be - your marriage!
I'm sorry my post made you cry! I do hope it was a "useful" cry, if you see what I mean. The same thing happened to me when I read Benjamin Fry's replies to me back in April. And I'm sorry if my conjectures about your parents and your upbringing upset you - they may of course be completely wrong. But if your parents were emotionally detached in some way, and this had an effect on you, the end result does not necessarily have to be blame. It also does not need to be a negative end result in your relationship with them. I have found that despite my parents' actions being an enormous part of what has happened to me, I have enormous love and respect for both of them, and a desire as a result of my breakdown/breakthrough to get closer to them and have a more open relationship. You will not suddenly start to feel differently about your parents as a result of all of this. What might happen though is you might see the truth about yourself and your past more clearly, and this will help you with your emotions in the present.
I am already talking more with my brother and with my parents and learning to live with the truth of who I am and how things have affected me. This is freedom by which you gain something, you do not lose something. It is clear that you felt loved by your parents, and that is wonderful. Hold on to that and be grateful for it. Hug your mother and father and your sisters next time you see them (its hard, I know!)
The word trauma is a tricky one I think. It sounds so dramatic. I like to think more about "processing emotions". In my humble opinion, you certainly have a need to process or express some emotions that have been welling up in you for some time. I think that once you start to go through these feelings (good or bad) it will be surprisingly easy to see what is real and what is not. That part will come quite quickly probably as it seems to me that you are not afraid of feeling. You've made a great start.
I have one favour to ask of you - concentrate on your big day now but let us know here how the wedding went afterwards. I have been happy to reply to you, if I wasn't I wouldn't!
And final words! The answers are in yourself, nowhere else. Never let anyone tell you your own truth. And remember that all of this doesn't have to be about misery. Its about achieving the peaks of happiness and clarity as well. Remember that, especially on your wedding day, and count every blessing in your life as you experience them all in one place, at one time.
Just some quick responses as I think you are right - it is time for you to concentrate on this big fabulous step in your life, and how wonderful it is going to be - your marriage!
I'm sorry my post made you cry! I do hope it was a "useful" cry, if you see what I mean. The same thing happened to me when I read Benjamin Fry's replies to me back in April. And I'm sorry if my conjectures about your parents and your upbringing upset you - they may of course be completely wrong. But if your parents were emotionally detached in some way, and this had an effect on you, the end result does not necessarily have to be blame. It also does not need to be a negative end result in your relationship with them. I have found that despite my parents' actions being an enormous part of what has happened to me, I have enormous love and respect for both of them, and a desire as a result of my breakdown/breakthrough to get closer to them and have a more open relationship. You will not suddenly start to feel differently about your parents as a result of all of this. What might happen though is you might see the truth about yourself and your past more clearly, and this will help you with your emotions in the present.
I am already talking more with my brother and with my parents and learning to live with the truth of who I am and how things have affected me. This is freedom by which you gain something, you do not lose something. It is clear that you felt loved by your parents, and that is wonderful. Hold on to that and be grateful for it. Hug your mother and father and your sisters next time you see them (its hard, I know!)
The word trauma is a tricky one I think. It sounds so dramatic. I like to think more about "processing emotions". In my humble opinion, you certainly have a need to process or express some emotions that have been welling up in you for some time. I think that once you start to go through these feelings (good or bad) it will be surprisingly easy to see what is real and what is not. That part will come quite quickly probably as it seems to me that you are not afraid of feeling. You've made a great start.
I have one favour to ask of you - concentrate on your big day now but let us know here how the wedding went afterwards. I have been happy to reply to you, if I wasn't I wouldn't!
And final words! The answers are in yourself, nowhere else. Never let anyone tell you your own truth. And remember that all of this doesn't have to be about misery. Its about achieving the peaks of happiness and clarity as well. Remember that, especially on your wedding day, and count every blessing in your life as you experience them all in one place, at one time.
#21 Guest_Disco_*
Posted 08 June 2005 - 01:59 AM
Hi Janie,
Life could be so wonderfully simple, being a parent is hard, hard but rewarding, you can be proud of your parent's janie, I absolutely guarantee it. You can feel proud of yourself too.
What is happening is bewildering I'm sure.........but the fact is that you have been a caterpillar, the good news is that at the present you are making the change before shortly becoming the most beautiful butterfly you could wish to imagine.
As you venture out, don't give a thought for the caterpillar but envisage your new independant self as that beautiful butterfly, trust me the more you practise, people around you will start to recognise that same beautiful butterfly..................
beautiful butterfly
Life could be so wonderfully simple, being a parent is hard, hard but rewarding, you can be proud of your parent's janie, I absolutely guarantee it. You can feel proud of yourself too.
What is happening is bewildering I'm sure.........but the fact is that you have been a caterpillar, the good news is that at the present you are making the change before shortly becoming the most beautiful butterfly you could wish to imagine.
As you venture out, don't give a thought for the caterpillar but envisage your new independant self as that beautiful butterfly, trust me the more you practise, people around you will start to recognise that same beautiful butterfly..................
beautiful butterfly
#22 Guest_Janie_*
Posted 08 June 2005 - 08:26 AM
Thanks guys.
Since I've got a million and one things to do over the next few days, I am going to leave this discussion for the moment. Thank you all for your kind words, and Gareth in particular.
I'll be in touch when I'm back from my honeymoon in a few weeks to let you all know how everything is going.
All the best
Rachel
Since I've got a million and one things to do over the next few days, I am going to leave this discussion for the moment. Thank you all for your kind words, and Gareth in particular.
I'll be in touch when I'm back from my honeymoon in a few weeks to let you all know how everything is going.
All the best
Rachel
#23 Guest_Janie_*
Posted 05 July 2005 - 08:02 AM
Hi guys,
Well - back at last from an emotional (but in a good way) month. Both the wedding and honeymoon have been fantastic - very relaxing and refreshing after some of the stresses and strains of the last few months.
The new me - and I'm not just talking about my new name - is making an effort to carve a new life from my old one, as difficult and complex as that may be, and to perhaps start going back uphill again. This has been helped in part by having such a positive time through the wedding and I hope has given me a kick up the backside to getting through all these feelings.
I don't desire to look at myself any deeper than that at the moment, as I'm scared of losing all the positive feelings, so I'm not too sure how to proceed. Any advice?
Gareth, i also wanted to reply to your post of 10th June. Although I don't know you very well, I am incredibly impressed by your desire to seek the knowledge and reseasrch the options available to you in the form of CBT and therapies. And then if that's not enough you then proceed to compare and contrast and fully look at the differences in them. This really impresses me, and I don't know whether you do this with all aspects of your life, or just because you have a genuine interest in the subject. Your idea of combining the different approaches to provide a parallel therapy rather than a top-down / bottom-up approach, makes a lot of sense to me indeed.
I realise that you have had to look at this in a personal way, i.e. what works for you and how you feel that the different therapies have helped you, but I'm sure you'll agree that the inegrated approach you describe could easily be tailored on a generic level to give an effective treatment on a personal level. And at the risk of sounding like a broken record - you really should consider a career in this.
it was interesting to read that you were dismissed by the CBT therapist because you had not suffered bereavement or physical / sexual abuse. If there is one thing that I have learned by coming on here, it is that the need for therapy can stem from many different reasons, or perhaps just to act as an outlet for telling the truth about yourself (no pun intended).
it is plainly obvious that you have a strong desire to heal and to "break through" your barriers to understand your pain. I wish you all the best in that respect - you are an incredibly strong person which is notable from your posts, so I have no doubt that you will reach France sometime soon. It sounds like you are already clear of some of the most turbulent cross channel currents!
All the best
Rachel x
Well - back at last from an emotional (but in a good way) month. Both the wedding and honeymoon have been fantastic - very relaxing and refreshing after some of the stresses and strains of the last few months.
The new me - and I'm not just talking about my new name - is making an effort to carve a new life from my old one, as difficult and complex as that may be, and to perhaps start going back uphill again. This has been helped in part by having such a positive time through the wedding and I hope has given me a kick up the backside to getting through all these feelings.
I don't desire to look at myself any deeper than that at the moment, as I'm scared of losing all the positive feelings, so I'm not too sure how to proceed. Any advice?
Gareth, i also wanted to reply to your post of 10th June. Although I don't know you very well, I am incredibly impressed by your desire to seek the knowledge and reseasrch the options available to you in the form of CBT and therapies. And then if that's not enough you then proceed to compare and contrast and fully look at the differences in them. This really impresses me, and I don't know whether you do this with all aspects of your life, or just because you have a genuine interest in the subject. Your idea of combining the different approaches to provide a parallel therapy rather than a top-down / bottom-up approach, makes a lot of sense to me indeed.
I realise that you have had to look at this in a personal way, i.e. what works for you and how you feel that the different therapies have helped you, but I'm sure you'll agree that the inegrated approach you describe could easily be tailored on a generic level to give an effective treatment on a personal level. And at the risk of sounding like a broken record - you really should consider a career in this.
it was interesting to read that you were dismissed by the CBT therapist because you had not suffered bereavement or physical / sexual abuse. If there is one thing that I have learned by coming on here, it is that the need for therapy can stem from many different reasons, or perhaps just to act as an outlet for telling the truth about yourself (no pun intended).
it is plainly obvious that you have a strong desire to heal and to "break through" your barriers to understand your pain. I wish you all the best in that respect - you are an incredibly strong person which is notable from your posts, so I have no doubt that you will reach France sometime soon. It sounds like you are already clear of some of the most turbulent cross channel currents!
All the best
Rachel x
#24
Gareth
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Posted 06 July 2005 - 07:24 AM
Rachel,
This is excellent - you sound really really positive. And many congratulations on your marriage.
My only advice to you is to keep on keeping on - hold on to and appreciate everything that you have. Feel good about it. Treasure it. If you say you don't desire to look any deeper into yourself than you already have done, then don't. It is likely that your instinct about what to do for the best for yourself is the right one.
As long as you are feeling good about yourself, your life, your future, then there is no need to go dredging up a load of stuff that won't necessarily help you. It seems from your posts on here that a lot of what you have been through has been processed very quickly in your mind, and you have managed to come to terms with a lot of things you have done and felt in the past.
Watch your behaviour, but don't watch too closely. If you feel the urge to repeat some of the patterns that you have done in the past - the things that brought you here in the first place, then maybe it will be time to consider talking to somebody. But there is nothing to say that you cannot go on from here to be very happy indeed. Despite some people's cynicism about marriage, it can have an extremely healing effect on people's lives, as they begin to find the deep love and security that they have always unknowingly craved. My marriage was a catalyst for me looking at eradicating the hurt of the past, it is probable that yours will have a similar effect. How you get there is up to you. I for one believe that living a good, full, happy life, is the best route to get there.
The people on this board will be here if you feel you have anything you want to say. Thanks so much for your kind words for me, its always nice to hear. As far as a career in all this goes... perhaps. I need to spend some time on the other side of the fence first, but it really is heartening to me to think that my words have helped you, even a little.
All the very best to you, Rachel, you've got some happy times coming up I think!
Gareth
This is excellent - you sound really really positive. And many congratulations on your marriage.
My only advice to you is to keep on keeping on - hold on to and appreciate everything that you have. Feel good about it. Treasure it. If you say you don't desire to look any deeper into yourself than you already have done, then don't. It is likely that your instinct about what to do for the best for yourself is the right one.
As long as you are feeling good about yourself, your life, your future, then there is no need to go dredging up a load of stuff that won't necessarily help you. It seems from your posts on here that a lot of what you have been through has been processed very quickly in your mind, and you have managed to come to terms with a lot of things you have done and felt in the past.
Watch your behaviour, but don't watch too closely. If you feel the urge to repeat some of the patterns that you have done in the past - the things that brought you here in the first place, then maybe it will be time to consider talking to somebody. But there is nothing to say that you cannot go on from here to be very happy indeed. Despite some people's cynicism about marriage, it can have an extremely healing effect on people's lives, as they begin to find the deep love and security that they have always unknowingly craved. My marriage was a catalyst for me looking at eradicating the hurt of the past, it is probable that yours will have a similar effect. How you get there is up to you. I for one believe that living a good, full, happy life, is the best route to get there.
The people on this board will be here if you feel you have anything you want to say. Thanks so much for your kind words for me, its always nice to hear. As far as a career in all this goes... perhaps. I need to spend some time on the other side of the fence first, but it really is heartening to me to think that my words have helped you, even a little.
All the very best to you, Rachel, you've got some happy times coming up I think!
Gareth
#25 Guest_Janie_*
Posted 30 August 2005 - 08:36 PM
Well - the old times are back with a vengeance.
I am overwhelmed with the need to get attention in some form. I told an old friend that I'd been raped last week. I feel disgusted with myself - and yet I crave more. I am sitting here right now - physically needing it. It makes me feel sick.
All the hard work, undone in an instant. Although, it wasn't really instant, it was pre-planned. I'd felt the feelings coming for a few days, and was powerless to stop it. I can feel it coming again - and don't want it this time - or do I? I want it so badly, but I don't - make any sense?
Sorry to let you all down. I tried - I really did. Just not hard enough.
Rachel x
I am overwhelmed with the need to get attention in some form. I told an old friend that I'd been raped last week. I feel disgusted with myself - and yet I crave more. I am sitting here right now - physically needing it. It makes me feel sick.
All the hard work, undone in an instant. Although, it wasn't really instant, it was pre-planned. I'd felt the feelings coming for a few days, and was powerless to stop it. I can feel it coming again - and don't want it this time - or do I? I want it so badly, but I don't - make any sense?
Sorry to let you all down. I tried - I really did. Just not hard enough.
Rachel x
#26
Gareth
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Posted 31 August 2005 - 07:28 AM
Rachel,
It's really good to hear from you, although I am sorry that you've felt the need to come back here.
Firstly, you haven't let anyone down. And secondly, sometimes simply 'trying' isn't enough. I think that perhaps it is time for you to gain some understanding so that you are able to direct your efforts in a focused direction.
You probably know what I am going to say... have you considered counselling or psychotherapy sessions?
Do talk to us more and let us know what has been happening. You say you felt the feelings coming for a few days - can you identify a trigger? Can you pinpoint when you first felt the desire to lie again? What was happening at the time, what were you thinking at the time?
How about your wedding? How did the wedding day make you feel? How did you feel immediately afterwards and since then? What emotions came for your husband and for your parents on the day?
Something is trying to break free from you, Rachel, in order to lead you to a happier and more peaceful place. It may be time to give it a helping hand on its way. Unfortunately the only way out is through.
Gareth
It's really good to hear from you, although I am sorry that you've felt the need to come back here.
Firstly, you haven't let anyone down. And secondly, sometimes simply 'trying' isn't enough. I think that perhaps it is time for you to gain some understanding so that you are able to direct your efforts in a focused direction.
You probably know what I am going to say... have you considered counselling or psychotherapy sessions?
Do talk to us more and let us know what has been happening. You say you felt the feelings coming for a few days - can you identify a trigger? Can you pinpoint when you first felt the desire to lie again? What was happening at the time, what were you thinking at the time?
How about your wedding? How did the wedding day make you feel? How did you feel immediately afterwards and since then? What emotions came for your husband and for your parents on the day?
Something is trying to break free from you, Rachel, in order to lead you to a happier and more peaceful place. It may be time to give it a helping hand on its way. Unfortunately the only way out is through.
Gareth
#27 Guest_Janie_*
Posted 31 August 2005 - 10:23 AM
Hi Gareth,
As I mentioned in my previous post ñ the wedding and subsequent honeymoon was absolutely fantastic. It was a very positive experience for me, and led me to believe that in those few months and weeks leading up to the wedding, and my posting on here, that the stress I was under generally contributed to my feeling the way I did ñ which was overwhelmed. At around that time, I was also moving jobs and moving house, and generally had a lot going on.
The obvious downside for me since then has been having to move back into my parents house whilst I started my new job, as my new husband has not found work in this area yet, and so remains in our house 500 miles away. In the meantime we commute up and down at weekends. It would be daft of me not to think that this has not had any affect on me, although I did think I would be able to cope more. It has only been for 6 weeks so far as well.
As for trigger points, Iíve been trying to think ñ had I argued with my parents? With my husband? Is it part of my menstrual cycle? (sorry), And I canít put my finger on it. There doesnít seem to be anything obvious I donít think. When I first started the feelings again a couple of weeks back, I wasnít under any major strain or difficulties, and it has continued from there.
I want to do it now ñ I have to physically switch off my phone to stop me calling / texting someone. I canít seem to stop it ñ and it is that lack of self control that is scary. All the feelings I feel I hate, and that leads me to hate myself again, and the self confidence takes another large knock.
So ñ I guess onto therapy. Yes I have considered it, and will investigate a bit more. Although I donít know how to go about finding the right person. Any recommendations for the London area?
Rachel x
As I mentioned in my previous post ñ the wedding and subsequent honeymoon was absolutely fantastic. It was a very positive experience for me, and led me to believe that in those few months and weeks leading up to the wedding, and my posting on here, that the stress I was under generally contributed to my feeling the way I did ñ which was overwhelmed. At around that time, I was also moving jobs and moving house, and generally had a lot going on.
The obvious downside for me since then has been having to move back into my parents house whilst I started my new job, as my new husband has not found work in this area yet, and so remains in our house 500 miles away. In the meantime we commute up and down at weekends. It would be daft of me not to think that this has not had any affect on me, although I did think I would be able to cope more. It has only been for 6 weeks so far as well.
As for trigger points, Iíve been trying to think ñ had I argued with my parents? With my husband? Is it part of my menstrual cycle? (sorry), And I canít put my finger on it. There doesnít seem to be anything obvious I donít think. When I first started the feelings again a couple of weeks back, I wasnít under any major strain or difficulties, and it has continued from there.
I want to do it now ñ I have to physically switch off my phone to stop me calling / texting someone. I canít seem to stop it ñ and it is that lack of self control that is scary. All the feelings I feel I hate, and that leads me to hate myself again, and the self confidence takes another large knock.
So ñ I guess onto therapy. Yes I have considered it, and will investigate a bit more. Although I donít know how to go about finding the right person. Any recommendations for the London area?
Rachel x
#28
Gareth
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Posted 31 August 2005 - 11:08 AM
Janie,
I can completely empathise with feeling out of control. I think that sometimes when messages are trying to break free from the subconscious there is absolutely nothing you can do to stop it until you have looked at the causes.
Re therapy, I would say that this is probably a wise next step for you. I also know how hard it is to admit that to yourself. Please don't see it as a failure on your part at all, try to look on at as learning about yourself and arriving at a happier future.
I have a spreadsheet that lists all of the organisations that offer low-cost psychotherapy in the London area. This is the result of extensive research that I conducted when I was looking into getting therapy.
I would be very happy to send it to you. Email me at girvine@gmail.com if you would like it.
Gareth
I can completely empathise with feeling out of control. I think that sometimes when messages are trying to break free from the subconscious there is absolutely nothing you can do to stop it until you have looked at the causes.
Re therapy, I would say that this is probably a wise next step for you. I also know how hard it is to admit that to yourself. Please don't see it as a failure on your part at all, try to look on at as learning about yourself and arriving at a happier future.
I have a spreadsheet that lists all of the organisations that offer low-cost psychotherapy in the London area. This is the result of extensive research that I conducted when I was looking into getting therapy.
I would be very happy to send it to you. Email me at girvine@gmail.com if you would like it.
Gareth
#29 Guest_Janie_*
Posted 25 November 2005 - 06:19 PM
Well - at the last count, I've told 3 people in the last 2 months about my phantom rape.
I have not gone to counselling, although have picked up the phone a few times and then hung up. I also seem to have developed a rather worrying habit of behaving very flitatiously with men I have absolutely no interest in and no intention of furthering, except I can't seem to bring myself to tell them that.
When I was growing up I used to get this feeling in the pit of my stomach that I used to call the "longing feeling". it was a feeling that I really really wanted something, but i didn't know what it was. A bit like unrequited love with somebody that you haven't met yet. As I've gotten older, I have realised that this "longing feeling" is settled by gaining attention through my lies, or through being a flirt.
Even more worrying is that I have found myself walking home from the station after work through all the dark alleys and fields to get...I'm not sure what. it's like I want to be raped in order to jsutify all the lies I've told people about rape. It's like a fantasy - and I'm not talking sexually - I'm talking about the fantasy of gaining the sympathy from people if this actually happened to me. I realise that this is very insulting to those who have been through this terrible trauma.
It is very simple to me to justify the pain that I imagine I would go through if it actually did happen. It would be a justification of the untruths in the past. maybe it's a guilt thing? Who knows.
Do you know if you were to ask me, I would be able to tell you in graphic detail about my "rape", down to the clothes I was wearing and the colour of the carpet. I almost belive it myself.
The latest episode of my flirting has hurt a work colleague very badly. I had to tell him tonight that I don't want to be any more than just friends, and never did. We never had anyhintg sexual or physical, just flirting and suggestion - I never had any intention of it, I just let him think I did.
So - here we are again.
R x
I have not gone to counselling, although have picked up the phone a few times and then hung up. I also seem to have developed a rather worrying habit of behaving very flitatiously with men I have absolutely no interest in and no intention of furthering, except I can't seem to bring myself to tell them that.
When I was growing up I used to get this feeling in the pit of my stomach that I used to call the "longing feeling". it was a feeling that I really really wanted something, but i didn't know what it was. A bit like unrequited love with somebody that you haven't met yet. As I've gotten older, I have realised that this "longing feeling" is settled by gaining attention through my lies, or through being a flirt.
Even more worrying is that I have found myself walking home from the station after work through all the dark alleys and fields to get...I'm not sure what. it's like I want to be raped in order to jsutify all the lies I've told people about rape. It's like a fantasy - and I'm not talking sexually - I'm talking about the fantasy of gaining the sympathy from people if this actually happened to me. I realise that this is very insulting to those who have been through this terrible trauma.
It is very simple to me to justify the pain that I imagine I would go through if it actually did happen. It would be a justification of the untruths in the past. maybe it's a guilt thing? Who knows.
Do you know if you were to ask me, I would be able to tell you in graphic detail about my "rape", down to the clothes I was wearing and the colour of the carpet. I almost belive it myself.
The latest episode of my flirting has hurt a work colleague very badly. I had to tell him tonight that I don't want to be any more than just friends, and never did. We never had anyhintg sexual or physical, just flirting and suggestion - I never had any intention of it, I just let him think I did.
So - here we are again.
R x
#30
Gareth
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Posted 28 November 2005 - 10:21 AM
Rachel,
I'm sorry to see you here again... it can't be easy to admit in any format what is happening so well done for having the strength to do so.
I would suggest that what was once a tap tap on the door from your subconscious mind is now becoming a thunderous banging. Something desperately wants your attention, and unsurprisingly, you are currently too terrified to look it in the face. This is a massively difficult and long process - I am still involved in it, my own personal denial of my situation is with me every day still. Denial and distraction are all part of the process - it is obviously not easy to go from one modality of living to a completely new one. But something is telling you that it is very necessary.
I believe that your situation has come down now to simply making a choice. Do you reach in to yourself to take a look at what it is that is knocking on the door, or do you ignore it? Which choice is easier? Which choice is better for your long term health? What do you really WANT for your future, and how much do you want it?
It is the hardest choice you will ever face, but there is one thing you can be sure about it - you own it. Everything that is happening to you is about you - it may not be your fault, but it is owned completely by you. No-one else has any power or control over what you do next.
You have identified the very emotion that is at the core of your difficulties. The longing feeling you describe is exactly that - something central to your emotional development seems to have been denied you at some point, and you are spending time and effort trying to plug the gap with lies and deceit. There is a better way of living, you must believe that, there are other ways of communicating with your inner self that will feel better and will give you more long term returns. You must believe in that as the first step of this very difficult process.
Be brave, be strong, for yourself, for your future, and talk to someone.
I'll be here if you want to talk more.
Gareth
I'm sorry to see you here again... it can't be easy to admit in any format what is happening so well done for having the strength to do so.
I would suggest that what was once a tap tap on the door from your subconscious mind is now becoming a thunderous banging. Something desperately wants your attention, and unsurprisingly, you are currently too terrified to look it in the face. This is a massively difficult and long process - I am still involved in it, my own personal denial of my situation is with me every day still. Denial and distraction are all part of the process - it is obviously not easy to go from one modality of living to a completely new one. But something is telling you that it is very necessary.
I believe that your situation has come down now to simply making a choice. Do you reach in to yourself to take a look at what it is that is knocking on the door, or do you ignore it? Which choice is easier? Which choice is better for your long term health? What do you really WANT for your future, and how much do you want it?
It is the hardest choice you will ever face, but there is one thing you can be sure about it - you own it. Everything that is happening to you is about you - it may not be your fault, but it is owned completely by you. No-one else has any power or control over what you do next.
You have identified the very emotion that is at the core of your difficulties. The longing feeling you describe is exactly that - something central to your emotional development seems to have been denied you at some point, and you are spending time and effort trying to plug the gap with lies and deceit. There is a better way of living, you must believe that, there are other ways of communicating with your inner self that will feel better and will give you more long term returns. You must believe in that as the first step of this very difficult process.
Be brave, be strong, for yourself, for your future, and talk to someone.
I'll be here if you want to talk more.
Gareth
