Hi guys,
I wanted to write to ask your opinion.
I think I may be a severely f*cked up person and i can't figure out why. I constantly try to get attention from people, even to the extent where I have told some really big lies to people - close friends and family, people who matter to me. I can't figure out where this need to lie comes from, and why I need the attention. I hate myself and what I have become. I've even been known to hit myself on the face or arms regularly - not because I am self-harming - but because I want people to feel sorry for me, so if they see the black eye or the cut on the arm i get attention.
It's gone from the harmless - the exaggerating stories to make them more interesting, to the damaging - telling big outright lies.
I am too embarraed and ashamed to write down the things I have told people, so please don't ask.
I have had a "normal" upbringing - a family who I love and who love me. I've never wanted for anything, suffered any particular hard-ship or suffered an emotional trauma. I'm just a freak.
I have no explanation for why I behave the way i do - nad its messing with my head. What is wrong wioth me, and why am I such a horrible selfish person.
jc x
Liar
#2
Gareth 
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Posted 31 May 2005 - 11:39 AM
Hi Janie,
First let me say that your suffering is no less legitimate simply because you cannot find a simply identifiable cause. You seem to be making yourself miserable, and there has to be a reason for this. Don't beat yourself up because you can't see it. Firstly acknowledge your pain and that it is real. Finding the cause can be important, but it is not the be all and end all.
In summary your post seems to say that your problem seems to be that you seek attention. The most basic analysis of this would say that at some point in your life you were lacking in attention from someone who was important to you. Does this ring any bells? Perhaps your parents, despite giving you everything you needed, were a little distant or not especially physically affectionate? Search the feelings that you have for all of the significant people in your life. Make a list and write down significant events in relation to significant people and how they made you feel. You will find some unexpected results.
For these exercises I would definitely recommend Benjamin's book, which explains the processes of trauma, and how they can be subtle and creep up on you when you're not looking. The book encourages you to look carefully at your life, and to see where the causes of your problems may stem from. I for one have found it helpful.
The only real way to get to the root of these things is to find someone to talk to, and to talk. As I said, just because you think your childhood was OK, doesn't mean you have nothing to talk about. It doesn't have to be about your childhood, or even about something that you can remember. If you talk to someone, you will begin to gain an idea of where these feelings are coming from. Start with Benjamin's book and then perhaps think about spending a little time with a counsellor?
One other thing to remember - you are not a freak, and if you are, you are only freakish in that, unlike most people, you can see clearly that your behaviour and feelings aren't completely healthy at the moment, and by coming on here, you have stated an intention to heal yourself. This shows that you actually have an emotional maturity and understand the things that you are doing. Most people blunder through life hurting people and not even realising it.
So perhaps you are not as selfish as you think?
First let me say that your suffering is no less legitimate simply because you cannot find a simply identifiable cause. You seem to be making yourself miserable, and there has to be a reason for this. Don't beat yourself up because you can't see it. Firstly acknowledge your pain and that it is real. Finding the cause can be important, but it is not the be all and end all.
In summary your post seems to say that your problem seems to be that you seek attention. The most basic analysis of this would say that at some point in your life you were lacking in attention from someone who was important to you. Does this ring any bells? Perhaps your parents, despite giving you everything you needed, were a little distant or not especially physically affectionate? Search the feelings that you have for all of the significant people in your life. Make a list and write down significant events in relation to significant people and how they made you feel. You will find some unexpected results.
For these exercises I would definitely recommend Benjamin's book, which explains the processes of trauma, and how they can be subtle and creep up on you when you're not looking. The book encourages you to look carefully at your life, and to see where the causes of your problems may stem from. I for one have found it helpful.
The only real way to get to the root of these things is to find someone to talk to, and to talk. As I said, just because you think your childhood was OK, doesn't mean you have nothing to talk about. It doesn't have to be about your childhood, or even about something that you can remember. If you talk to someone, you will begin to gain an idea of where these feelings are coming from. Start with Benjamin's book and then perhaps think about spending a little time with a counsellor?
One other thing to remember - you are not a freak, and if you are, you are only freakish in that, unlike most people, you can see clearly that your behaviour and feelings aren't completely healthy at the moment, and by coming on here, you have stated an intention to heal yourself. This shows that you actually have an emotional maturity and understand the things that you are doing. Most people blunder through life hurting people and not even realising it.
So perhaps you are not as selfish as you think?
#3 Guest_Janie_*
Posted 31 May 2005 - 07:35 PM
Thank you Gareth - some interesting food for thought, and some good information.
I have thought about going to a counsellor, and then dismissed the idea believing that I don't have the right, as I don't have a conceivable explanation. I am coming to the realisation that (as you rightly identify), my behaviour is neither normal nor healthy, and I should see if an explanation can be found, and then get on that road to healing (is that the right word for me?).
My biggest fear and therefore stumbling block, is that a root cause can not be found, which would verify that I really am just a nasty person. The self-doubt and suspicions that I may not turn out to be the person that I really want to be, without the lies and the rest of it, would increase a million times and Im not sure what that means for me as a person. I feel like I don't know myself, don't know who I am.
So if I recognise the problem - and recognise that it's not good, what is stopping me rectifying it? The guilt I feel after each bout of... whatever it may be (lies, injuries etc), never seems to be enough to stop me doing it again.
I used to be able to put the guilt behind me and pretend it didn't matter, but now I feel numb, and emotionless, like I have no identity.
Never knew that life could be so confusing - it once seemed so normal - I was once normal. THought things got easier as you got older. Feel more mixed up now then when I was a teenager!
jc x
I have thought about going to a counsellor, and then dismissed the idea believing that I don't have the right, as I don't have a conceivable explanation. I am coming to the realisation that (as you rightly identify), my behaviour is neither normal nor healthy, and I should see if an explanation can be found, and then get on that road to healing (is that the right word for me?).
My biggest fear and therefore stumbling block, is that a root cause can not be found, which would verify that I really am just a nasty person. The self-doubt and suspicions that I may not turn out to be the person that I really want to be, without the lies and the rest of it, would increase a million times and Im not sure what that means for me as a person. I feel like I don't know myself, don't know who I am.
So if I recognise the problem - and recognise that it's not good, what is stopping me rectifying it? The guilt I feel after each bout of... whatever it may be (lies, injuries etc), never seems to be enough to stop me doing it again.
I used to be able to put the guilt behind me and pretend it didn't matter, but now I feel numb, and emotionless, like I have no identity.
Never knew that life could be so confusing - it once seemed so normal - I was once normal. THought things got easier as you got older. Feel more mixed up now then when I was a teenager!
jc x
#4
aspirant
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Posted 31 May 2005 - 10:27 PM
Janie,
I don't think there's anything I can add to Gareth's good sense.
I am puzzled by your reason for not seeing a counsellor. Why don't you have the right if you can't already provide an explanation? Presumably you go to a professional counsellor to find out what's wrong precisely because you don't know what it is yourself. If your drains start smelling, you might have a rough idea of what's wrong, and because it's unpleasant for everybody you need to sort it out. So you call in an professional person who can find out why your drains smell and how to fix it. It's a clumsy comparison, I know, but it may help to remove your own ideas about what you're worth from the decision to seek counselling.
If you're still troubled by your entitlement to counselling, what about all the people you've lied to? I presume many of them love you and offer support to you. Don't they have rights that you should respect by seeking counselling, so that you can put a stop to your destructive behaviour?
I'm sorry if this sounds a bit harsh. I understand that you are undergoing a real and terrible anguish, and I offer my thoughts only in the hope that they help you in some small way.
Best wishes,
Andy
I don't think there's anything I can add to Gareth's good sense.
I am puzzled by your reason for not seeing a counsellor. Why don't you have the right if you can't already provide an explanation? Presumably you go to a professional counsellor to find out what's wrong precisely because you don't know what it is yourself. If your drains start smelling, you might have a rough idea of what's wrong, and because it's unpleasant for everybody you need to sort it out. So you call in an professional person who can find out why your drains smell and how to fix it. It's a clumsy comparison, I know, but it may help to remove your own ideas about what you're worth from the decision to seek counselling.
If you're still troubled by your entitlement to counselling, what about all the people you've lied to? I presume many of them love you and offer support to you. Don't they have rights that you should respect by seeking counselling, so that you can put a stop to your destructive behaviour?
I'm sorry if this sounds a bit harsh. I understand that you are undergoing a real and terrible anguish, and I offer my thoughts only in the hope that they help you in some small way.
Best wishes,
Andy
#5 Guest_Janie_*
Posted 01 June 2005 - 07:48 AM
Hi andy,
Thank you for your post. And no - you didn't sounds harsh, although I think you misunderstood. I'm not sure i explained it very well in my last post.
My original reason for not seeing a counsellor came down to the fact that I didn't think I needed one - whilst i could recognise what i was doing was wrong - I still didn't put it down to a cause. i therefore didn't have a "right", a bit like going to the doctor for no reason.
As time has gone on and it has got worse, I have begun to see the unhealthiness and non-normality in what I am doing and see that I should do what i can to try and put a stop to it - and therefore work through whatever it is that has caused me to behave this way. This has led me to considering a counsellor to talk the problem through.
My biggest fear - is that they WONT FIND ANYTHING WRONG - and therefore I'm just a bitch. I realise there is no answer to this problem. I'll never know unless i try etc etc. Getting the courage to go down the road is incredibly difficult when I'm not sure if what I'll find at the end of the road will be something I don't like very much. Make sense? To use your analogy - the plumber that comes to fix the drains can't find the problem, and it just ends up smelling and being rotten for ever.
jc x
Thank you for your post. And no - you didn't sounds harsh, although I think you misunderstood. I'm not sure i explained it very well in my last post.
My original reason for not seeing a counsellor came down to the fact that I didn't think I needed one - whilst i could recognise what i was doing was wrong - I still didn't put it down to a cause. i therefore didn't have a "right", a bit like going to the doctor for no reason.
As time has gone on and it has got worse, I have begun to see the unhealthiness and non-normality in what I am doing and see that I should do what i can to try and put a stop to it - and therefore work through whatever it is that has caused me to behave this way. This has led me to considering a counsellor to talk the problem through.
My biggest fear - is that they WONT FIND ANYTHING WRONG - and therefore I'm just a bitch. I realise there is no answer to this problem. I'll never know unless i try etc etc. Getting the courage to go down the road is incredibly difficult when I'm not sure if what I'll find at the end of the road will be something I don't like very much. Make sense? To use your analogy - the plumber that comes to fix the drains can't find the problem, and it just ends up smelling and being rotten for ever.
jc x
#6
Gareth
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Posted 01 June 2005 - 10:19 AM
Janie,
I can completely identify with this fear of there being nothing causing your problems and therefore you're stuck with them. I had this fear when I began my counselling, and am still in denial that it is in fact a crappy part of my childhood that has caused my problems - I am much more prone to just thinking it is all my fault and I am weak and I have brought it all on myself.
This is because people with emotional 'problems' think like this. They tell themselves they are valueless. They tell themselves they cause all of their problems themselves. They have not been TAUGHT CORRECTLY (and this is a really important point) to believe anything else. They don't have the basic emotional tools necessary to properly judge or evaluate their behaviour or move on from things that they know cause them damage or pain.
Start from this point - what is happening to you is not your fault. You are not evil, no-one is. You are not "fundamentally nasty" - no-one is. Not even Hitler. Not even Celine Dion (sorry, my own prejudices coming out there...)
Look at the counselling process from the other side... Perhaps you won't be able to find some deep root cause that will be like a lightbulb going on in your head. If that happens, in a way its a good thing, as what you and your counsellor can do then is go straight to working on your behaviour.
You already understand that your behaviour is making yourself and those around you unhappy, so all you perhaps need is an understanding of how to modify it for the better. You can work with your counsellor on specific "flashpoints", where you find yourself doing these things, identify how you are feeling at that time, and identify exactly what it is that you need to get past feeling this way. Don't forget that while an understanding of the past is useful, it is treated as exactly that in counselling and psychotherapy - the past. It cannot be changed, it can only be understood. I would make a wild guess that at the moment you don't really understand your past, and that is one of the reasons why you are where you are at the moment.
You also seem concerned about "why now?" This happened to me as well. I literally woke up one morning feeling ill. For me my symptoms don't manifest as behaviour but as internal torment, but its all the same thing. If you believe in trauma you will see that it will eventually release itself - you can't carry a burden around with you for the rest of your life, your mind and body will want to be freed and they will work together to try to find a better way of "being". Unfortunately the subconscious doesn't care if you suffer in the process; it only wants to get you to a better place, by any means necessary. Try to look at your behaviour and self-examination as the beginning of this process. If you let it happen rather than fight against it, the ride will be a lot less bumpy.
Right now you are not getting something that you need. Getting that something is the object of the exercise. This is completely about you now, and looking inside of yourself is the most scary, but the most necessary step. Open up and you will find surprising things. Sometimes surprisingly horrible, sometimes surprisingly beautiful.
Keep posting here if you need to say more, and remember - This is not 100% about the past or 100% about the present or 100% about the future. But it is 100% about feelings. And wherever they come from, they are always equally legitimate.
I can completely identify with this fear of there being nothing causing your problems and therefore you're stuck with them. I had this fear when I began my counselling, and am still in denial that it is in fact a crappy part of my childhood that has caused my problems - I am much more prone to just thinking it is all my fault and I am weak and I have brought it all on myself.
This is because people with emotional 'problems' think like this. They tell themselves they are valueless. They tell themselves they cause all of their problems themselves. They have not been TAUGHT CORRECTLY (and this is a really important point) to believe anything else. They don't have the basic emotional tools necessary to properly judge or evaluate their behaviour or move on from things that they know cause them damage or pain.
Start from this point - what is happening to you is not your fault. You are not evil, no-one is. You are not "fundamentally nasty" - no-one is. Not even Hitler. Not even Celine Dion (sorry, my own prejudices coming out there...)
Look at the counselling process from the other side... Perhaps you won't be able to find some deep root cause that will be like a lightbulb going on in your head. If that happens, in a way its a good thing, as what you and your counsellor can do then is go straight to working on your behaviour.
You already understand that your behaviour is making yourself and those around you unhappy, so all you perhaps need is an understanding of how to modify it for the better. You can work with your counsellor on specific "flashpoints", where you find yourself doing these things, identify how you are feeling at that time, and identify exactly what it is that you need to get past feeling this way. Don't forget that while an understanding of the past is useful, it is treated as exactly that in counselling and psychotherapy - the past. It cannot be changed, it can only be understood. I would make a wild guess that at the moment you don't really understand your past, and that is one of the reasons why you are where you are at the moment.
You also seem concerned about "why now?" This happened to me as well. I literally woke up one morning feeling ill. For me my symptoms don't manifest as behaviour but as internal torment, but its all the same thing. If you believe in trauma you will see that it will eventually release itself - you can't carry a burden around with you for the rest of your life, your mind and body will want to be freed and they will work together to try to find a better way of "being". Unfortunately the subconscious doesn't care if you suffer in the process; it only wants to get you to a better place, by any means necessary. Try to look at your behaviour and self-examination as the beginning of this process. If you let it happen rather than fight against it, the ride will be a lot less bumpy.
Right now you are not getting something that you need. Getting that something is the object of the exercise. This is completely about you now, and looking inside of yourself is the most scary, but the most necessary step. Open up and you will find surprising things. Sometimes surprisingly horrible, sometimes surprisingly beautiful.
Keep posting here if you need to say more, and remember - This is not 100% about the past or 100% about the present or 100% about the future. But it is 100% about feelings. And wherever they come from, they are always equally legitimate.
#7 Guest_Guest_Trying_*
Posted 01 June 2005 - 11:59 AM
Hi Janie,
Sounds like these guys have already given you plenty of good stuff. I just wanted to add some things that might help.
1. I'll let you in on a little secret - we are ALL fucked-up people - everyone one of us. It is what makes us human and capable of love and feeling, so welcome to the club. Those of us who realise and accepts this are the lucky ones - it's the first step to real freedom.
2. All your feelings are you gifts. If you cry at a movie, if you hate a friend, if you love your dog, if you are frightened of what someone thinks, if you are angry at your mom - this is all happening inside you. Not out there somewhere, but in you because you are continually creating life all around you. If you see magic, or you witness greatness, then it simply exists within you because you are experiencing it. When your heart fills with any of these feelings you are reminded of what it means to be human.
3. Our biggest problem, however, and the reason for all our pain, is not actually in the pain itself, but in are judging the pain. Now we drag our 'OK' nature into the mix and decide we are somehow not 'OK' because we FEEL horrible. But that's all there is to it - pain feels so bad that we decide to loathe ourselves because it FEELS BETTER than the pain.
4. Take the risk of telling people on this site those things that you fear are so shameful. Go on, I dare you. You'll be surprised by how accepting people are.
5. Most importantly - most of your fears aren't actaully your fears; they are probably your parents (or relatives/teachers/siblings) fears that you have adopted and accepted as your own. Learn about your OWN feelings. Sod it, maybe you DO want to go see a councillor but others have made you feel uneasy about this...? Usually in this life we can't think of a single person we know who won't have a problem with something we choose to do for ourselves. This can be a pretty convincing reason for not choosing something, and thinking this is actually our own decision when it isn't - it's just fear.
All the best,
T
Sounds like these guys have already given you plenty of good stuff. I just wanted to add some things that might help.
1. I'll let you in on a little secret - we are ALL fucked-up people - everyone one of us. It is what makes us human and capable of love and feeling, so welcome to the club. Those of us who realise and accepts this are the lucky ones - it's the first step to real freedom.
2. All your feelings are you gifts. If you cry at a movie, if you hate a friend, if you love your dog, if you are frightened of what someone thinks, if you are angry at your mom - this is all happening inside you. Not out there somewhere, but in you because you are continually creating life all around you. If you see magic, or you witness greatness, then it simply exists within you because you are experiencing it. When your heart fills with any of these feelings you are reminded of what it means to be human.
3. Our biggest problem, however, and the reason for all our pain, is not actually in the pain itself, but in are judging the pain. Now we drag our 'OK' nature into the mix and decide we are somehow not 'OK' because we FEEL horrible. But that's all there is to it - pain feels so bad that we decide to loathe ourselves because it FEELS BETTER than the pain.
4. Take the risk of telling people on this site those things that you fear are so shameful. Go on, I dare you. You'll be surprised by how accepting people are.
5. Most importantly - most of your fears aren't actaully your fears; they are probably your parents (or relatives/teachers/siblings) fears that you have adopted and accepted as your own. Learn about your OWN feelings. Sod it, maybe you DO want to go see a councillor but others have made you feel uneasy about this...? Usually in this life we can't think of a single person we know who won't have a problem with something we choose to do for ourselves. This can be a pretty convincing reason for not choosing something, and thinking this is actually our own decision when it isn't - it's just fear.
All the best,
T
#8 Guest_Janie_*
Posted 03 June 2005 - 08:51 AM
Hi again,
Well, I have taken a couple of days to mull over your replies - and thanks to all for giving me such good advice.
I will tell you some of the things I've done - not to shock you, but because I think I might need to write some of it down.
I am very aware that there are people who may read this and who may participate in this forum who have actually suffered the trauma of some of these thing I have lied about. To those people - There really are no words that can describe how ashamed I feel when I think about the way I behave - I ask only that you keep an open mind, and please don't judge me too harshly - I am sorry if I cause offence in any way.
1. My most common "big" lie is the rape lie. I know you have probably heard about those girls that claim they have been raped for attention - well, that's me. I have never accused anybody falsely, or gone to the police or anything like that, I just tell people that it happened to me in the past. I have even joined a rape discussion forum on the internet, and pariticpate regularly in the discussions there. I even went so far as to talk to somebody on the telephone from Victim Support - How sad am I?!
2. Another one I have said in the past is that I was pregnant, and miscarried. I think i have done this perhaps 3 times in the past although not recently. Although I still tell people now that it happened to me before. This was made very bad for me when me sister suffered a REAL and traumatic miscarraige - i felt terrible.
3. Another thing i do which i mentioned before is to hurt myself in some way - I have hit myself in the face and arms to give myself bruising in order to pretend I have been hurt - always accidently - I never pretended to have been a victim of abuse.
4. I once scratched myself on the face and neck and pretended I'd been mugged. my flatmates at the time made me call the police and I was forced to make up a description of the "guy" and what happened.
5. On a lesser scale - I make up places I've been and things I've done, exaggerate stories to people, or just make things up. I can be driving along somewhere and be thinking about random things, and then think "wouldn't it be funny/sad/strange/bad if this/that happened. Before you know it, I'm saying I did these things to the next person I speak to!
God. I just read back over what I've just written. The weird thing is that when I'm saying all these things - i almost believe it myself. When I said I was pregnant, I went around protectively holding my stomach, and pretending that the reason I was needing that snickers bar was because I was having a craving - and there wasn't even anybody there!!!
I have made contact with a counsellor - and I think you'll all agree that I need one. The strange thing is I still feel like I'm a fraud - its the same feelings as when I lie about something - I feel like it's all a lie. I hope the counsellor doesn't judge me, I hope you guys don't judge me. I'm really sorry if I've offended anyone with this post.
jc x
Well, I have taken a couple of days to mull over your replies - and thanks to all for giving me such good advice.
I will tell you some of the things I've done - not to shock you, but because I think I might need to write some of it down.
I am very aware that there are people who may read this and who may participate in this forum who have actually suffered the trauma of some of these thing I have lied about. To those people - There really are no words that can describe how ashamed I feel when I think about the way I behave - I ask only that you keep an open mind, and please don't judge me too harshly - I am sorry if I cause offence in any way.
1. My most common "big" lie is the rape lie. I know you have probably heard about those girls that claim they have been raped for attention - well, that's me. I have never accused anybody falsely, or gone to the police or anything like that, I just tell people that it happened to me in the past. I have even joined a rape discussion forum on the internet, and pariticpate regularly in the discussions there. I even went so far as to talk to somebody on the telephone from Victim Support - How sad am I?!
2. Another one I have said in the past is that I was pregnant, and miscarried. I think i have done this perhaps 3 times in the past although not recently. Although I still tell people now that it happened to me before. This was made very bad for me when me sister suffered a REAL and traumatic miscarraige - i felt terrible.
3. Another thing i do which i mentioned before is to hurt myself in some way - I have hit myself in the face and arms to give myself bruising in order to pretend I have been hurt - always accidently - I never pretended to have been a victim of abuse.
4. I once scratched myself on the face and neck and pretended I'd been mugged. my flatmates at the time made me call the police and I was forced to make up a description of the "guy" and what happened.
5. On a lesser scale - I make up places I've been and things I've done, exaggerate stories to people, or just make things up. I can be driving along somewhere and be thinking about random things, and then think "wouldn't it be funny/sad/strange/bad if this/that happened. Before you know it, I'm saying I did these things to the next person I speak to!
God. I just read back over what I've just written. The weird thing is that when I'm saying all these things - i almost believe it myself. When I said I was pregnant, I went around protectively holding my stomach, and pretending that the reason I was needing that snickers bar was because I was having a craving - and there wasn't even anybody there!!!
I have made contact with a counsellor - and I think you'll all agree that I need one. The strange thing is I still feel like I'm a fraud - its the same feelings as when I lie about something - I feel like it's all a lie. I hope the counsellor doesn't judge me, I hope you guys don't judge me. I'm really sorry if I've offended anyone with this post.
jc x
#9
Gareth
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Posted 03 June 2005 - 09:18 AM
Janie,
Well done for opening up. I do not underestimate how hard that must have been for you. Please understand that I am not judging you, and I'm sure others coming here feel the same.
You seem to have a true and real need for attention from other people. Perhaps you feel that the "real you" is not good enough to be worthy of attention? Perhaps you find life boring and mundane and want to spice it up a bit? You have lived so long with lies that you are even finding it hard to distinguish between lies and the truth in your own mind. This will heal in time. Its all about practise - the more you tell the truth, the more you will become accustomed to living with the truth, and after a while the truth will become second nature to you, as lies are now.
I would encourage you to keep posting on here, perhaps about your childhood this time, to get more of this stuff out. Just getting it out of yourself helps - it is the first step on a longer road. Can you identify the first time you told a big lie? What were the circumstances in your life at the time?
Lying is a cycle of addiction just like any other - alcohol, drugs, self-harming, you name it, its all part of the same processes, and all part of a deeper malaise that can be eased with time and patience and care. You are lying for a reason, and that reason is not that you are an evil person. It is because part of you believes you will get something that you need from others if you tell these lies. However, like any addiction, the effects are only short lived. You get the hit - the attention that you crave for a little while, and then things just go back to normal and you are left stuck living in the same skin, in the same life. A long term plan where you find out who you really are, learn to accept yourself, is what is needed here.
I can empathise a little with you, as I have lied in the past when I have been feeling low and wanted people to take notice of me. I remember when my parents were divorcing when I was 13, I told all of my schoolfriends that my family were moving away and that soon I wouldn't be coming to school again. I had no idea why I was doing it at the time, it just came out. The upshot was that my friends threw me a surprise party, where they paid for a DJ and and got me loads of presents, and got me up on stage to give me an emotional farewell. You can imagine how mortified I was. About a week later I skulked into school and told everyone that the move was off. I felt so awful about it, but have only recently realised that I did it for attention. No-one was looking after me at home during a very difficult period for me, and I was sad, alone, and scared. Desperate times call for desperate measures sometimes.
The point now is, you are aware that your behaviour is not the best for yourself, or for people around, and you want to do something about it. You have already started your path to a better way of living by posting on here. Going to see a counsellor is a really excellent and necessary next step. The next thing you have to do is try to find a little patience - you have a behaviour that is completely ingrained into you, and something that has taken years to develop will not vanish overnight. But if you maintain your commitment to living better, you should find that you achieve unexpected and great results. Just try to enjoy the journey - getting to know yourself a little better, and give yourself a chance.
Well done for opening up. I do not underestimate how hard that must have been for you. Please understand that I am not judging you, and I'm sure others coming here feel the same.
You seem to have a true and real need for attention from other people. Perhaps you feel that the "real you" is not good enough to be worthy of attention? Perhaps you find life boring and mundane and want to spice it up a bit? You have lived so long with lies that you are even finding it hard to distinguish between lies and the truth in your own mind. This will heal in time. Its all about practise - the more you tell the truth, the more you will become accustomed to living with the truth, and after a while the truth will become second nature to you, as lies are now.
I would encourage you to keep posting on here, perhaps about your childhood this time, to get more of this stuff out. Just getting it out of yourself helps - it is the first step on a longer road. Can you identify the first time you told a big lie? What were the circumstances in your life at the time?
Lying is a cycle of addiction just like any other - alcohol, drugs, self-harming, you name it, its all part of the same processes, and all part of a deeper malaise that can be eased with time and patience and care. You are lying for a reason, and that reason is not that you are an evil person. It is because part of you believes you will get something that you need from others if you tell these lies. However, like any addiction, the effects are only short lived. You get the hit - the attention that you crave for a little while, and then things just go back to normal and you are left stuck living in the same skin, in the same life. A long term plan where you find out who you really are, learn to accept yourself, is what is needed here.
I can empathise a little with you, as I have lied in the past when I have been feeling low and wanted people to take notice of me. I remember when my parents were divorcing when I was 13, I told all of my schoolfriends that my family were moving away and that soon I wouldn't be coming to school again. I had no idea why I was doing it at the time, it just came out. The upshot was that my friends threw me a surprise party, where they paid for a DJ and and got me loads of presents, and got me up on stage to give me an emotional farewell. You can imagine how mortified I was. About a week later I skulked into school and told everyone that the move was off. I felt so awful about it, but have only recently realised that I did it for attention. No-one was looking after me at home during a very difficult period for me, and I was sad, alone, and scared. Desperate times call for desperate measures sometimes.
The point now is, you are aware that your behaviour is not the best for yourself, or for people around, and you want to do something about it. You have already started your path to a better way of living by posting on here. Going to see a counsellor is a really excellent and necessary next step. The next thing you have to do is try to find a little patience - you have a behaviour that is completely ingrained into you, and something that has taken years to develop will not vanish overnight. But if you maintain your commitment to living better, you should find that you achieve unexpected and great results. Just try to enjoy the journey - getting to know yourself a little better, and give yourself a chance.
#10 Guest_Guest_*
Posted 03 June 2005 - 02:45 PM
Hey Gareth,
Are you a doctor/therapist? Your replies always seem to be very well measured, and once again I say thankyou.
Your last post hit a chord with me, and I have been sitting at my desk mulling it over all day - (don't tell my boss!). The first thing you said about feeling like the real me is not worthy of attention, so the fake me makes stuff up to be more interesting - I have considered whether I feel like that, and my reply: I don't know. I've never self-examined myself in that way. My other posts have said that I hate the person the I have become through the lying and stuff - but I never considered whether I hated the person that was there before. If I did - I don't know. I can't see apst the person I have forced myself to be versus what I may or may not be underneath all that. Do I like myself (lies aside)? Maybe not. Something to think of anyway.
I also never looked at it like an addiction before, and that makes a lot of sense to me - yes I guess I am addicted, and you're right, it never takes too long before I start feeling guilty after the lie. So I guess I need to look at that as well.
It may surprise you to know that I hate being the centre of attention. I hate being in a group of people having a conversation, and being the focus of that conversation, and I hate having to do presentations, I don't tell jokes because I'm terrified that people won't laugh, and don't like contributing to conversations much because I don't want to say anything stupid. There are exceptions to that, which are when I'm with my family or my very close friends. I don't fully understand the mentality behind that. You are right in saying I should examine the who, what, when aspect of my lies, maybe there's something in it. Perhaps I should talk about who I lie to - usually it's only one person, and I ask that person to keep it to themselves. I like the fact that they worry about me and usually hope that that means they will like me more becasue I have "opened" up to them. I don't know.
Something else I should mention - I have never told any of my "big" lies, i.e. rape, pregnancy etc, to my family or close friends - well, tell a lie (!), I did once. I told my best mate I was pregnant, and consequently our little group of friends all found out. I did my usual fake a miscarraige, and they were all very sorry for me, and buying me little presents etc, and I was mortified. About 3 years after that, I made the decision to tell them that I made it up. They were surprisingly forgiving. Apart from that one time, I've kept the big ones to a wider network of people. Another exception to that is my current partner, who still believes I was raped at 15 years old - we have been together now for 7 years, and in fact are getting married next week (which may be why some of this stuff is surfacing now). Its got to the stage where I couldn't tell him now, as it's gone to far... know what I mean. I do however, tell some of the smaller, whiter lies to my family / close friends - e.g exaggeration and downright lies, but not what I'd consider to be the more serious lies.
I feel like I'm rambling - sorry for going on a bit. I think you've got me on a bit of a roll Gareth. I feel like I could keep writing and writing. It's a long time since I've been totally honest with what I'm saying. I will have a think about the "first lie" and my childhood for next time.
jc x
Are you a doctor/therapist? Your replies always seem to be very well measured, and once again I say thankyou.
Your last post hit a chord with me, and I have been sitting at my desk mulling it over all day - (don't tell my boss!). The first thing you said about feeling like the real me is not worthy of attention, so the fake me makes stuff up to be more interesting - I have considered whether I feel like that, and my reply: I don't know. I've never self-examined myself in that way. My other posts have said that I hate the person the I have become through the lying and stuff - but I never considered whether I hated the person that was there before. If I did - I don't know. I can't see apst the person I have forced myself to be versus what I may or may not be underneath all that. Do I like myself (lies aside)? Maybe not. Something to think of anyway.
I also never looked at it like an addiction before, and that makes a lot of sense to me - yes I guess I am addicted, and you're right, it never takes too long before I start feeling guilty after the lie. So I guess I need to look at that as well.
It may surprise you to know that I hate being the centre of attention. I hate being in a group of people having a conversation, and being the focus of that conversation, and I hate having to do presentations, I don't tell jokes because I'm terrified that people won't laugh, and don't like contributing to conversations much because I don't want to say anything stupid. There are exceptions to that, which are when I'm with my family or my very close friends. I don't fully understand the mentality behind that. You are right in saying I should examine the who, what, when aspect of my lies, maybe there's something in it. Perhaps I should talk about who I lie to - usually it's only one person, and I ask that person to keep it to themselves. I like the fact that they worry about me and usually hope that that means they will like me more becasue I have "opened" up to them. I don't know.
Something else I should mention - I have never told any of my "big" lies, i.e. rape, pregnancy etc, to my family or close friends - well, tell a lie (!), I did once. I told my best mate I was pregnant, and consequently our little group of friends all found out. I did my usual fake a miscarraige, and they were all very sorry for me, and buying me little presents etc, and I was mortified. About 3 years after that, I made the decision to tell them that I made it up. They were surprisingly forgiving. Apart from that one time, I've kept the big ones to a wider network of people. Another exception to that is my current partner, who still believes I was raped at 15 years old - we have been together now for 7 years, and in fact are getting married next week (which may be why some of this stuff is surfacing now). Its got to the stage where I couldn't tell him now, as it's gone to far... know what I mean. I do however, tell some of the smaller, whiter lies to my family / close friends - e.g exaggeration and downright lies, but not what I'd consider to be the more serious lies.
I feel like I'm rambling - sorry for going on a bit. I think you've got me on a bit of a roll Gareth. I feel like I could keep writing and writing. It's a long time since I've been totally honest with what I'm saying. I will have a think about the "first lie" and my childhood for next time.
jc x
#11
Gareth
- Advanced Member
-
- Group: Members
- Posts: 64
- Joined: 13-April 05
Posted 03 June 2005 - 03:34 PM
Hey Janie,
No I'm not a doc or therapist - very nice of you to think so though! So please do just take my words as an attempt at support by an interested and sympathetic amateur! I could be completely wrong in many of my conjectures - its just an attempt to make you think about stuff I suppose as that was the first thing that was helpful for me when I "broke down" in March of this year. Since then I have read an awful lot of material about all this mental health gubbins and also worked with a psychotherapist on myself so I guess I have a layman's understanding of things that I try to bring here. I post on here specifically because it was Benjamin Fry who opened up my mind to the idea of trauma and was very supportive towards me initially, and because not many people tend to post on here. But I reiterate - don't believe the things I say because I'm not a professional - and most importantly, only believe one person when it comes to finding out what you need to do to move on - yourself.
Funny you should mention getting married and thinking it might be a trigger for things. I was married in November of last year and I think the entire experience was one of a few triggers for setting me off on a road of breakdown/breakthrough. The emotion of the preparation and of the day itself was so intense that I think it opened me up somehow, and my psyche has been asking me to find a better way of living to the one I was engaged in before (i.e. a somewhat closed emotional life, my true self and true feelings being supressed by the trauma contained within my mind/body from way back when in my childhood).
I'll keep going back to Benjamin's book as his ideas are the ones that first got me thinking. One of the core ideas of the book is that the subconscious mind has a higher agenda than the conscious mind. It strives for a better emotional and spiritual existence, whereas the conscious mind is just a "blunt tool", concerned only that we get food, shelter, warmth and sex. So when the unconscious mind is living under the veil of trauma, it will work to relieve itself of this, by any means necessary.
The other idea closely linked to this is that when our lives get better, they often feel worse. This is because the subconscious mind does not want to overload you, so only begins to release the trauma that is contains when it feels it is safe to do so, i.e. when your life is free from other major preoccupations and stresses and day to day emotional traumas. Getting married is also something that should be (emotionally) one of the best days of your life, and I have often wondered if deep down I was so dissatisfied with my own completely non-involved experience of the event that my unconscious mind said to itself "bugger this, there's got to be a better way of living - lets get this guy FEELING so that he doesn't miss out emotionally on any more big days, like the birth of a child, for example." All massive conjecture at the moment and something I am working on with my therapist, slowly. The answers come in surprisingly subtle and unexpected ways, but slowly they do come.
OK some more conjecture about you. You tell lies to attract attention to yourself, and yet you hate being the centre of attention. This suggests to me a strong division in who you really are. You say yourself that there is a "real me" and a "fake me". Which "me" is it that hates being the centre of attention? I would wager that that is the real you - because the real you doesn't think you are worth very much, isn't that confident, and perhaps doesn't want attention for fear of your deeper insecurities about yourself showing themselves on the surface to those you care about. The lies are part and parcel of this - the more you can bury the "real you", the person that you feel is not worthy of attention, with a facade and a mask, the more comfortable you are. How is your self-esteem, Janie? How do you really feel about yourself? Forget the lies, I mean the rest of you?
Perhaps you never told your bigger lies to your loved ones because actually you feel more secure with them. They are the people that you trust to not judge you too harshly, and therefore you are able to release at least a little bit more of the real you to them. If the lies are a smokescreen, and a system for repressing your true feelings about yourself the world, then it makes sense that that smokescreen will not need to be so thick when you are amongst those that you trust the most.
Some things you say remind me of the process of trauma being released - when you say "why now" and when you say that you feel your identity is changing. You may be changing, but this does not necessarily mean you are changing for the worse. If you are indeed trying to find a better way of living, whether it be subconsciously or consciously, the process to get there may actually be very unpleasant, but every step is completely necessary. The key is to just let things happen without judging them too much. If you feel down, let yourself feel down, if you feel uptight, let it happen. Say to yourself "I feel really bloomin sorry for myself today", don't obsess on it or engage with it too much, just experience it in your body and mind and get on with what you would normally do anyway.
A final word of caution - this self-examination thing is very enticing. It can become so alluring that you end up thinking of very little else. This happened to me at the start and is a cycle I am still trying to completely break from. To get in touch with what your feelings are, it is not only necessary to put your intellect to work, but also to put your body and soul to work. Read a book, go for a run, write a story, paint a picture, watch an emotional movie. I would urge you at this delicate time to do something "just for you", that is not about agonising over what might be wrong with you. Pander and pamper yourself and slowly connect through expression with who you really are and what you really want out of all of this.
No I'm not a doc or therapist - very nice of you to think so though! So please do just take my words as an attempt at support by an interested and sympathetic amateur! I could be completely wrong in many of my conjectures - its just an attempt to make you think about stuff I suppose as that was the first thing that was helpful for me when I "broke down" in March of this year. Since then I have read an awful lot of material about all this mental health gubbins and also worked with a psychotherapist on myself so I guess I have a layman's understanding of things that I try to bring here. I post on here specifically because it was Benjamin Fry who opened up my mind to the idea of trauma and was very supportive towards me initially, and because not many people tend to post on here. But I reiterate - don't believe the things I say because I'm not a professional - and most importantly, only believe one person when it comes to finding out what you need to do to move on - yourself.
Funny you should mention getting married and thinking it might be a trigger for things. I was married in November of last year and I think the entire experience was one of a few triggers for setting me off on a road of breakdown/breakthrough. The emotion of the preparation and of the day itself was so intense that I think it opened me up somehow, and my psyche has been asking me to find a better way of living to the one I was engaged in before (i.e. a somewhat closed emotional life, my true self and true feelings being supressed by the trauma contained within my mind/body from way back when in my childhood).
I'll keep going back to Benjamin's book as his ideas are the ones that first got me thinking. One of the core ideas of the book is that the subconscious mind has a higher agenda than the conscious mind. It strives for a better emotional and spiritual existence, whereas the conscious mind is just a "blunt tool", concerned only that we get food, shelter, warmth and sex. So when the unconscious mind is living under the veil of trauma, it will work to relieve itself of this, by any means necessary.
The other idea closely linked to this is that when our lives get better, they often feel worse. This is because the subconscious mind does not want to overload you, so only begins to release the trauma that is contains when it feels it is safe to do so, i.e. when your life is free from other major preoccupations and stresses and day to day emotional traumas. Getting married is also something that should be (emotionally) one of the best days of your life, and I have often wondered if deep down I was so dissatisfied with my own completely non-involved experience of the event that my unconscious mind said to itself "bugger this, there's got to be a better way of living - lets get this guy FEELING so that he doesn't miss out emotionally on any more big days, like the birth of a child, for example." All massive conjecture at the moment and something I am working on with my therapist, slowly. The answers come in surprisingly subtle and unexpected ways, but slowly they do come.
OK some more conjecture about you. You tell lies to attract attention to yourself, and yet you hate being the centre of attention. This suggests to me a strong division in who you really are. You say yourself that there is a "real me" and a "fake me". Which "me" is it that hates being the centre of attention? I would wager that that is the real you - because the real you doesn't think you are worth very much, isn't that confident, and perhaps doesn't want attention for fear of your deeper insecurities about yourself showing themselves on the surface to those you care about. The lies are part and parcel of this - the more you can bury the "real you", the person that you feel is not worthy of attention, with a facade and a mask, the more comfortable you are. How is your self-esteem, Janie? How do you really feel about yourself? Forget the lies, I mean the rest of you?
Perhaps you never told your bigger lies to your loved ones because actually you feel more secure with them. They are the people that you trust to not judge you too harshly, and therefore you are able to release at least a little bit more of the real you to them. If the lies are a smokescreen, and a system for repressing your true feelings about yourself the world, then it makes sense that that smokescreen will not need to be so thick when you are amongst those that you trust the most.
Some things you say remind me of the process of trauma being released - when you say "why now" and when you say that you feel your identity is changing. You may be changing, but this does not necessarily mean you are changing for the worse. If you are indeed trying to find a better way of living, whether it be subconsciously or consciously, the process to get there may actually be very unpleasant, but every step is completely necessary. The key is to just let things happen without judging them too much. If you feel down, let yourself feel down, if you feel uptight, let it happen. Say to yourself "I feel really bloomin sorry for myself today", don't obsess on it or engage with it too much, just experience it in your body and mind and get on with what you would normally do anyway.
A final word of caution - this self-examination thing is very enticing. It can become so alluring that you end up thinking of very little else. This happened to me at the start and is a cycle I am still trying to completely break from. To get in touch with what your feelings are, it is not only necessary to put your intellect to work, but also to put your body and soul to work. Read a book, go for a run, write a story, paint a picture, watch an emotional movie. I would urge you at this delicate time to do something "just for you", that is not about agonising over what might be wrong with you. Pander and pamper yourself and slowly connect through expression with who you really are and what you really want out of all of this.
#12 Guest_Janie_*
Posted 03 June 2005 - 07:12 PM
I can remember the first time I lied as if it were yesterday. I can remember the thoughts, the feelings, and the decision making process that led me to justify it to myself. I have to be wary here that I'm not confusing childhood pranks with what's happening now.
I was in primary school, not sure exactly how old - possible around 6 or 7. For some reason I told my teacher that my mother had broken her leg. I'm not sure I'd pre-planned the lie. My nana used to walk us to school whilst my mum was working, so perhaps the teacher had asked where my mum was or something like that. Anyway, I told her that she'd broken her leg in a fall. I remember the school dinner lady asking me how it had happened, although I don't remeber what I said. It was a small school and a small town, my mum was well known locally, as she was a member of the PTA and various other local charities and comittees. I was 100% guarenteed to get found out, but being so young, didn't realise that! It was the one lie that I remember being caught out on.
After that, I guess my next time was at Secondary school. I went to a Convent school, and I must have been close to the end of my time at school and we had some people in to talk to us about the pressures of exams and home life, and they said they were available to talk if necessary after the session. Well, I went along - not sure why - I didn't feel particulary pressured by exams, and again I don't think I'd pre-planned anything. It just came out - my dad has kicked me out and he hates me. Don't know where that came from at all. I did have a fairly tempestuous relationship with my dad - he was quite strict and I was a rebellious teenager. I'd probably had a fight with him the night before or something. The guy I was speaking to didn't say much, just urged me to go home and speak to him. And that was the start. From there it went on to telling a teacher that I was pregnant, and then I told somebody else I'd been raped, and you;re right - it was a bit like a drug, it just got worse and worse.
I don't know if any factor in my childhood had a part to play. I come from a very comfortable background, I have 2 sisters and a brother, and none of us ever wanted for anyhting, it was very affluent. I've already mentioned that my dad could be a bit strict sometimes, but he wasn't violent or anyhting like that, just the occasional smacked legs for being naughty or something. My mum is a bit of a space cadet - a very intelligent woman, but always a bit vague with things. All my family are "loud", i.e. have to be heard above each other. Nobody ever backs down in a fight and of course they are always right. I always tended to be the one that avoided confrontation, and in fact I do that to this day - I hate confrontation and will do anything I can to avoid it. I guess that comes from being shouted down so much from other family members.
Shit. Shit shit shit. Am I having a breakdown? Is that what this is? You ask how my self esteem is? I am not a confident person, in that I'm not happy with the way I look, the way I am, but I have always put that down to usual everyday insecurities. Self worth. What does that mean? I'm not worth very much - the real or the fake me? Both. Maybe Ive been comfortable with the fake me for so long, and yet now even the fake me is fighting back becasue it's not normal. So I can't trust the fake me or the real me, maybe I need another persona! I don't like the two I've got now. So how do I feel about myself? Truthfully, I feel confused, I feel wrong, like I shouldn't really be here, like it was a mistake me being here. Not sure if that's making a lot of sense or not. I guess Im tryin to work it through in my head.
Gareth - I read your story on this board, and it seems to me that you have had a really raw deal growing up. I feel for you in this respect - and if this makes sense (and I hope it doesn't offend you) I also almost felt jealous of you. You have come through so much, and have a justified and valid reason for coming on here and for seeing a therapist - I feel like a fake. I feel like I feel when I tell a lie - Like I'ma fraud and have no business being on here. What is heartwarming is that you are strong enough to help others, and not only that you understand the feelings and the thought processes. You should take up a career in it!
jc x
I was in primary school, not sure exactly how old - possible around 6 or 7. For some reason I told my teacher that my mother had broken her leg. I'm not sure I'd pre-planned the lie. My nana used to walk us to school whilst my mum was working, so perhaps the teacher had asked where my mum was or something like that. Anyway, I told her that she'd broken her leg in a fall. I remember the school dinner lady asking me how it had happened, although I don't remeber what I said. It was a small school and a small town, my mum was well known locally, as she was a member of the PTA and various other local charities and comittees. I was 100% guarenteed to get found out, but being so young, didn't realise that! It was the one lie that I remember being caught out on.
After that, I guess my next time was at Secondary school. I went to a Convent school, and I must have been close to the end of my time at school and we had some people in to talk to us about the pressures of exams and home life, and they said they were available to talk if necessary after the session. Well, I went along - not sure why - I didn't feel particulary pressured by exams, and again I don't think I'd pre-planned anything. It just came out - my dad has kicked me out and he hates me. Don't know where that came from at all. I did have a fairly tempestuous relationship with my dad - he was quite strict and I was a rebellious teenager. I'd probably had a fight with him the night before or something. The guy I was speaking to didn't say much, just urged me to go home and speak to him. And that was the start. From there it went on to telling a teacher that I was pregnant, and then I told somebody else I'd been raped, and you;re right - it was a bit like a drug, it just got worse and worse.
I don't know if any factor in my childhood had a part to play. I come from a very comfortable background, I have 2 sisters and a brother, and none of us ever wanted for anyhting, it was very affluent. I've already mentioned that my dad could be a bit strict sometimes, but he wasn't violent or anyhting like that, just the occasional smacked legs for being naughty or something. My mum is a bit of a space cadet - a very intelligent woman, but always a bit vague with things. All my family are "loud", i.e. have to be heard above each other. Nobody ever backs down in a fight and of course they are always right. I always tended to be the one that avoided confrontation, and in fact I do that to this day - I hate confrontation and will do anything I can to avoid it. I guess that comes from being shouted down so much from other family members.
Shit. Shit shit shit. Am I having a breakdown? Is that what this is? You ask how my self esteem is? I am not a confident person, in that I'm not happy with the way I look, the way I am, but I have always put that down to usual everyday insecurities. Self worth. What does that mean? I'm not worth very much - the real or the fake me? Both. Maybe Ive been comfortable with the fake me for so long, and yet now even the fake me is fighting back becasue it's not normal. So I can't trust the fake me or the real me, maybe I need another persona! I don't like the two I've got now. So how do I feel about myself? Truthfully, I feel confused, I feel wrong, like I shouldn't really be here, like it was a mistake me being here. Not sure if that's making a lot of sense or not. I guess Im tryin to work it through in my head.
Gareth - I read your story on this board, and it seems to me that you have had a really raw deal growing up. I feel for you in this respect - and if this makes sense (and I hope it doesn't offend you) I also almost felt jealous of you. You have come through so much, and have a justified and valid reason for coming on here and for seeing a therapist - I feel like a fake. I feel like I feel when I tell a lie - Like I'ma fraud and have no business being on here. What is heartwarming is that you are strong enough to help others, and not only that you understand the feelings and the thought processes. You should take up a career in it!
jc x
#13 Guest_T_*
Posted 04 June 2005 - 02:17 PM
Janie, you said:
"Maybe I've been comfortable with the fake me for so long, and yet now even the fake me is fighting back because it's not normal."
When we have got used to one way of operating for so long, it can start to feel like the 'normal' us. Other times I'm sure you act more genuinely and wonder which is the more 'real' you. Well, they are both the real you.
There is nothing simple about us human beings, and we can make things very difficult by trying to put ourselves in a nice, simple box and label it 'me'. Because 'me' can never be contained like that. We are not one-dimensional, nor are we three-dimentional. We are multi-dimentional beings, and in that there is room for everything. There may be parts within that which you aren't proud of, but it doesn't make you bad. By dismissing the more 'unattractive' aspects of your personality you are in effect dismissing yourself. The path to happiness and greater self-esteem involves treating yourself more like an adult, with the respect you deserve, but that doesn't mean scoulding (parenting) yourself at every turn because you aren't happy with what you see.
Take a break! You don't need to prove yourself to anybody, including yourself. You are free to choose to make that choice - always. Never set yourself any rules or absolutes, because life is about change; and we should never fear to do so, because the ability to change is our greatest gift. It is why we are free. I know freedom is scary when you have got so used to the safety of not being free, but wouldn't you rather be an eagle in the sky than a budgie in a cage...?
"Maybe I've been comfortable with the fake me for so long, and yet now even the fake me is fighting back because it's not normal."
When we have got used to one way of operating for so long, it can start to feel like the 'normal' us. Other times I'm sure you act more genuinely and wonder which is the more 'real' you. Well, they are both the real you.
There is nothing simple about us human beings, and we can make things very difficult by trying to put ourselves in a nice, simple box and label it 'me'. Because 'me' can never be contained like that. We are not one-dimensional, nor are we three-dimentional. We are multi-dimentional beings, and in that there is room for everything. There may be parts within that which you aren't proud of, but it doesn't make you bad. By dismissing the more 'unattractive' aspects of your personality you are in effect dismissing yourself. The path to happiness and greater self-esteem involves treating yourself more like an adult, with the respect you deserve, but that doesn't mean scoulding (parenting) yourself at every turn because you aren't happy with what you see.
Take a break! You don't need to prove yourself to anybody, including yourself. You are free to choose to make that choice - always. Never set yourself any rules or absolutes, because life is about change; and we should never fear to do so, because the ability to change is our greatest gift. It is why we are free. I know freedom is scary when you have got so used to the safety of not being free, but wouldn't you rather be an eagle in the sky than a budgie in a cage...?
#14 Guest_T_*
Posted 04 June 2005 - 02:35 PM
I also wanted to say your warm, caring nature is coming out in your posts - and saying you were jealous of someone who appeared to have more justified reasons for pain was very honest of you. Reasons that you have too of course - there is nothing fake about your 'fake' emotions. We all have pain in varying degrees, but the one thing it all has in common is that a somebody is always experiencing and FEELING it. That means no pain is 'fake'.
You just don't see what is wonderful about yourself (you also write very well). Notice too how you are bringing out our caring, nurturing instincts!! We are programmed to do this to those in distress (because it helps us feel good about OURselves). You see? We all fit together like a jigsaw puzzle in this life, because we are all equally important. T
You just don't see what is wonderful about yourself (you also write very well). Notice too how you are bringing out our caring, nurturing instincts!! We are programmed to do this to those in distress (because it helps us feel good about OURselves). You see? We all fit together like a jigsaw puzzle in this life, because we are all equally important. T
#15
QuentinCL
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Posted 05 June 2005 - 01:54 PM
Janine
was very struck by your posting and am shooting from the hip - so just an honest reaction and not a considered response per se and nothing on hte level of Gareth (yes maybe he should take up a craeer in this!?)
kids often tell lies cos its kinda fun - we all did it to some degree so your Mum's broken leg story is i suspect a common type of childish thing to do and that your behaviour in that is normal...rather like Gareth's "we will be moving away soon". No malice intended possibly a cry for attention or possibly something else. But not exactly premeditated to cause others harm so forgive yourself for that one i'd say without anothre thought - easier said than done i KNOW!
I still to some degree indulge in "stories" cos its fun...i'm in a cab in some foreign city and the cabbie starts on about shagging girls type thing so i invent a wife..its amusing and harmless...possibly healthy ..learning to see how things might be from another's perspective of life and how people react to that "other" person that i invent in that moment. Again no malice i will never see them again and so....
The fact that this behaviour makes you unhappy and uncomfortable with yourself is reason enough to seek a therapist. I felt that i shouldnt see one cos i didnt deserve it...40,000 people starve to death every day on the planet and i am going to spend £x a week on therapy - how selfish am i? But it has helped me a lot. I am happier and more contented and i think i am a more useful member of the human race as a result. Equally if youhave a toothache and someone else has a leg hanging off - well sure they will treat the othre guy first but you still have a pain and that needs to be dealt with and in this it is your choice to deal with it. As Gareth says it happens in subtle and gentle ways over time..it takes a while to settle in to the therapy: to get your story out there to trust the therapist and once you have done that - then the work begins!! So dont despair if after week 2 you have got the "answer" - persevere
it struck me that you dont do this for attention but maybe for love / sympathy (from others) but that may not be so as it is often to people on the fringes of your life that you do this to. That said you did this to a group of friends about your pregnancy and resultingly they treated you with special care and that must have felt nice atthe time ( as wella little odd as you are thinking of cripes they belived me). So in inventing stories about yourself you garner nice attention...whereas in social situations you dont join in conversation, you dont tell jokes..is this oyur way to get attention in a safe way? If people ask you about it you can always say i dont wantto talk about it and people will always accept that for fear of upsetting you - safe or what?
Equally a lot of your "lieing" seems to be spontaneous rather than premeditated which again suggests to me ( as joe punter so do ignore all!!) that yo are almost certainly not a bad person
The fact that the snickers craving you did this when alone ...is that you shoring up your story in your own mind to make it more convincing to yourself to cover up for feeling bad about lieing in the first place but now that you had was this maybe just a way for you to deal with it?
I agree with Gareth about Benjamin's theories of the subconscious seeking to release trauma- his book is worth a read. It is not your usual self help book - indeed if you can get to his seminar (there is one up and coming)I'd recommend you go - i found it v enlightening and you dont have to talk about any of your personal stuff at all - its not that kind of a day - thank God - you can sit there and absorb stuff from it but maintain your silence as to your reason for being there
Therapy is also a safe place to explore these feelings. The fact that you are afraid that it will find you to be a bad person again probably means that you are not! But again its a safe space to explore those feelings and the consequences of them and so on.
I am told by many that pre marriage is a time when you start to review your life and so yes this is maybe an excellent time to start the next phase of your life trying to change an aspect of yourself that you dont like and are not comfortable with.
look forward to reading more on here and again apologise that htis is just a spontaneous out pouring rather than a thought of measured one and for my typing
Quentin
was very struck by your posting and am shooting from the hip - so just an honest reaction and not a considered response per se and nothing on hte level of Gareth (yes maybe he should take up a craeer in this!?)
kids often tell lies cos its kinda fun - we all did it to some degree so your Mum's broken leg story is i suspect a common type of childish thing to do and that your behaviour in that is normal...rather like Gareth's "we will be moving away soon". No malice intended possibly a cry for attention or possibly something else. But not exactly premeditated to cause others harm so forgive yourself for that one i'd say without anothre thought - easier said than done i KNOW!
I still to some degree indulge in "stories" cos its fun...i'm in a cab in some foreign city and the cabbie starts on about shagging girls type thing so i invent a wife..its amusing and harmless...possibly healthy ..learning to see how things might be from another's perspective of life and how people react to that "other" person that i invent in that moment. Again no malice i will never see them again and so....
The fact that this behaviour makes you unhappy and uncomfortable with yourself is reason enough to seek a therapist. I felt that i shouldnt see one cos i didnt deserve it...40,000 people starve to death every day on the planet and i am going to spend £x a week on therapy - how selfish am i? But it has helped me a lot. I am happier and more contented and i think i am a more useful member of the human race as a result. Equally if youhave a toothache and someone else has a leg hanging off - well sure they will treat the othre guy first but you still have a pain and that needs to be dealt with and in this it is your choice to deal with it. As Gareth says it happens in subtle and gentle ways over time..it takes a while to settle in to the therapy: to get your story out there to trust the therapist and once you have done that - then the work begins!! So dont despair if after week 2 you have got the "answer" - persevere
it struck me that you dont do this for attention but maybe for love / sympathy (from others) but that may not be so as it is often to people on the fringes of your life that you do this to. That said you did this to a group of friends about your pregnancy and resultingly they treated you with special care and that must have felt nice atthe time ( as wella little odd as you are thinking of cripes they belived me). So in inventing stories about yourself you garner nice attention...whereas in social situations you dont join in conversation, you dont tell jokes..is this oyur way to get attention in a safe way? If people ask you about it you can always say i dont wantto talk about it and people will always accept that for fear of upsetting you - safe or what?
Equally a lot of your "lieing" seems to be spontaneous rather than premeditated which again suggests to me ( as joe punter so do ignore all!!) that yo are almost certainly not a bad person
The fact that the snickers craving you did this when alone ...is that you shoring up your story in your own mind to make it more convincing to yourself to cover up for feeling bad about lieing in the first place but now that you had was this maybe just a way for you to deal with it?
I agree with Gareth about Benjamin's theories of the subconscious seeking to release trauma- his book is worth a read. It is not your usual self help book - indeed if you can get to his seminar (there is one up and coming)I'd recommend you go - i found it v enlightening and you dont have to talk about any of your personal stuff at all - its not that kind of a day - thank God - you can sit there and absorb stuff from it but maintain your silence as to your reason for being there
Therapy is also a safe place to explore these feelings. The fact that you are afraid that it will find you to be a bad person again probably means that you are not! But again its a safe space to explore those feelings and the consequences of them and so on.
I am told by many that pre marriage is a time when you start to review your life and so yes this is maybe an excellent time to start the next phase of your life trying to change an aspect of yourself that you dont like and are not comfortable with.
look forward to reading more on here and again apologise that htis is just a spontaneous out pouring rather than a thought of measured one and for my typing
Quentin
