Well, I missed the program as I don't have channel 5. I have posted a few topics on here but I have never discussed the debt problem that I have aquired over the past year.
I bought a house 18 months ago. 3 months later I lost my job. I had been to college and gained a qualification so I decided it was time to use this and start a new business. Although there is a lot of potential financially with the qualifications I hold, in my first year of business I have made loss of around £500 - very soul destroying when I have been working. I have not been working that hard really but I have faced lots and lots of set backs. In order to subsidise my income, I have taken some loans and am now in debt (on top of mortgage) to the tune of £12,000. Also my house is not in a saleable condition at present ( to get best price anyway) and I live in a very rural area which makes it difficult to find work - this is the reason I see for my business not being successful.
If there is an emotional issue behind this I wonder what it can be. I have some issues with regards to money in that when my Dad died I received an inheritence of £15,000 which I resented as my Dad commited suicide and it felt like an insult when my friends thought I was lucky to have the money - I felt they were lucky to have a Dad. Such a meagre amount for a life too - If I died my son would inherit a quarter of a million. Nevertheless, I have always been very careful with money. From the age of 13 I took paper rounds, then weekend jobs etc and gave up A-levels because I wanted to be working and earning money. I wonder what has changed over the last 18 months. I have suffered some depression and have been posting on here and looking at other areas of my life, but this debt issue is causing me such misery and making me feel so trapped.
Any suggestions?
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Missed program But am in debt
#2 Guest_Guest_*
Posted 07 April 2005 - 12:25 PM
Just a quickie - the programme is on BBC3, not channel 5. I think you can only get BBC3 through Sky or cable and such like, which I don't get either, but I read somewhere that it may be shown on BBC2 some time in the future.
#3
Benjamin Fry 
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Posted 08 April 2005 - 09:38 PM
It is a series of ten documentaries. Now on every Monday at 9pm on BBC3. There are six left so get yourself a freeview box and settle down to a quiet night in.
visit benjaminfry.co.uk for more information on my work
support getstable.org for better mental health treatment in the UK
support getstable.org for better mental health treatment in the UK
#4
marina
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Posted 13 April 2005 - 08:44 AM
Well as I am watching every penny at the moment, I can't afford sky or freeview box. It is actually my job to help people with financial planning (ironically!) and I have now found a way out of my current financial situation. I must say that debt is extremely common and I have had some real eye-openers in the last year as to peoples attitude towards debt. Some people are so blase about loans and credit cards, in one instance I had a client who had loans and credit totalling £189,000 - on top of mortgage. I don't think there was an emotional reason behind this as such just a difficult change in circumstance and ill health and not dealing with the situation as soon as possible - and not planning for it either. For example there are several insurance policies that could have guarded against the financial impact of events that occured. This wouldn't of changed what happened, but would have at least solved the financial burden freeing the client up to make the emotional adjustments.
There must be a reason why people repeatedly get into debt, overspend and consolidate their loans only to do the same again. Most of it is to do with attitude and society's values. There is no shame in having a £12,000 car in the driveway on HP, but there is shame in having an old banger in the driveway paid for outright. Very few of us can live in a cardboard box and the cost of housing is not cheap. There are many financial traps for us to fall into and without a decent wage there really is no escape - unless we change our attitude to money and tap into the motivation to spend. But I have to say, I have been extremely poor in the past but not been in debt - I have simply gone without and had to watch every penny. I am responsible for my current situation as I chose to buy a house in the countryside with few prospects of work. I didn't look at every possible eventuality as I just saw the dream - somewhere to escape to. I am looking to move house again now and am thinking things through a lot more this time.eg What if I am ill and can't pay mortgage (I advise on such policies as part of my job - but ironically can't get one myself at present as it wouldn't pay out). My biggest concern is depression. When I moved house I suffered depression and this has had the biggest impact on my ability to work effectively. As I am self-employed I have to be completely self-motivated and a negative, depressed state of mind does not bring results. I have been quite commited in the last year to dealing with past hurts. This again requires energy which I am then not using to make a living.
Anyway I would be interested in series - would it be possible to obtain on DVD in the near future?
There must be a reason why people repeatedly get into debt, overspend and consolidate their loans only to do the same again. Most of it is to do with attitude and society's values. There is no shame in having a £12,000 car in the driveway on HP, but there is shame in having an old banger in the driveway paid for outright. Very few of us can live in a cardboard box and the cost of housing is not cheap. There are many financial traps for us to fall into and without a decent wage there really is no escape - unless we change our attitude to money and tap into the motivation to spend. But I have to say, I have been extremely poor in the past but not been in debt - I have simply gone without and had to watch every penny. I am responsible for my current situation as I chose to buy a house in the countryside with few prospects of work. I didn't look at every possible eventuality as I just saw the dream - somewhere to escape to. I am looking to move house again now and am thinking things through a lot more this time.eg What if I am ill and can't pay mortgage (I advise on such policies as part of my job - but ironically can't get one myself at present as it wouldn't pay out). My biggest concern is depression. When I moved house I suffered depression and this has had the biggest impact on my ability to work effectively. As I am self-employed I have to be completely self-motivated and a negative, depressed state of mind does not bring results. I have been quite commited in the last year to dealing with past hurts. This again requires energy which I am then not using to make a living.
Anyway I would be interested in series - would it be possible to obtain on DVD in the near future?
#5
Benjamin Fry
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Posted 13 April 2005 - 06:27 PM
I think the program would interest you. You will see on it that debt is often the tip of the iceberg and that money is often a screen behind which problems lie ñ particularly problems with fathers which seems to have an unconscious link with material security.
Iím not sure about the DVD. Itís really up to the BBC. However a freeview box costs about £40 and then is free forever (although if you live in a remote area you should check that you receive the right signal). It might be a better investment than ten hours of DVDís! It may also be on one of the main BBC channels in the future too. There are rumours of a BBC2 transmission in the autumn but nothing certain, at least as far I know.
It is a very tough balance to find when trying to weight up how much time, energy and courage to put into your emotional recover and how much to spend on the more boring aspects of self-maintenance such as an income. The Buddha said something about taking care of your trade and income since a life in crisis allows little time for reflection and self-improvement. I guess we should all listen to that, as frustrating as it can sometimes be.
Iím not sure about the DVD. Itís really up to the BBC. However a freeview box costs about £40 and then is free forever (although if you live in a remote area you should check that you receive the right signal). It might be a better investment than ten hours of DVDís! It may also be on one of the main BBC channels in the future too. There are rumours of a BBC2 transmission in the autumn but nothing certain, at least as far I know.
It is a very tough balance to find when trying to weight up how much time, energy and courage to put into your emotional recover and how much to spend on the more boring aspects of self-maintenance such as an income. The Buddha said something about taking care of your trade and income since a life in crisis allows little time for reflection and self-improvement. I guess we should all listen to that, as frustrating as it can sometimes be.
visit benjaminfry.co.uk for more information on my work
support getstable.org for better mental health treatment in the UK
support getstable.org for better mental health treatment in the UK
#6
Deb
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Posted 23 May 2005 - 02:07 AM
Re your comment, Benjamin, that: "The Buddha said something about taking care of your trade and income since a life in crisis allows little time for reflection and self-improvement.", doesn't that presuppose that whoever wants a job can find one, or whoever has their own business can find enough customers who will pay sufficient prices to enable one to make a living?
I trained as an accountant and later worked in IT, with financial systems, but since coming back to Britain 15 months ago, and having lived in three different cities so far, I haven't been successful in finding work. We work for ourselves now but don't make enough to live on. Fortunately in Britain, the minimum income guarantee, via working tax credit has provided us with a little money to live on, and paid the rent, though obviously one's savings have to be fairly minimal (less than £16,000 for a couple) to qualify. If you own your own home it is posible to get working tax credit and I think they can help too, via the council, with mortgage interest. Marina, if you haven't already done so, it may be worth your while to look into this. We have two children, and while the money is not very much (£172 a week) at least it is something to see you over the early days while you are starting up your business.
I would say to someone who is considering what trade to either take up or retrain in, be careful what you choose, because work, in our society at least, has a way of dominating your life and your time. I would say it is important to choose a trade where you can grow within it as a person, rather than something just to earn a crust. I enjoyed working, but 15 months on, after 27 years of working, I still feel burnt out.
I trained as an accountant and later worked in IT, with financial systems, but since coming back to Britain 15 months ago, and having lived in three different cities so far, I haven't been successful in finding work. We work for ourselves now but don't make enough to live on. Fortunately in Britain, the minimum income guarantee, via working tax credit has provided us with a little money to live on, and paid the rent, though obviously one's savings have to be fairly minimal (less than £16,000 for a couple) to qualify. If you own your own home it is posible to get working tax credit and I think they can help too, via the council, with mortgage interest. Marina, if you haven't already done so, it may be worth your while to look into this. We have two children, and while the money is not very much (£172 a week) at least it is something to see you over the early days while you are starting up your business.
I would say to someone who is considering what trade to either take up or retrain in, be careful what you choose, because work, in our society at least, has a way of dominating your life and your time. I would say it is important to choose a trade where you can grow within it as a person, rather than something just to earn a crust. I enjoyed working, but 15 months on, after 27 years of working, I still feel burnt out.
#7 Guest_CJ_*
Posted 24 May 2005 - 02:01 AM
I would say that the thoughts posted on this page offer pretty blatant evidence that the fundamental reasons why so many people are in debt nowadays are primarily due to social structures and the ideological forces that keep them in place.
In the savannahs of southern Ethiopia and northern Kenya there are many pastoralist tribes whose subsistence depends upon cattle rearing. They are frequently described by other members of their societies as having a ìcattle-complexî ñ an irrational, obsessive worship of cattle that is deeply ingrained in their culture. However, there is in fact nothing irrational about their obsession, because their subsistence is primarily dependent upon cattle, and so their societies have evolved to developed a ritualistic idealisation of cattle rearing, in which ones very social status hinges on perfecting this vital skill upon which society critically depends.
We, however, live in a technocratic capitalist society, whereby our economy is fuelled by indiscriminate consumption ñ spending on possessions, without regard for how necessary this spending might be. For our entire lives we have been bombarded with a consumerist, materialist ideology, whereby our status within society is primarily determined not by our acts of altruism, feats of strength, or rearing of cattle, but by our wealth, which is displayed in our houses, cars, clothes, holidays etc. While the individual reasons for peoples spending will obviously vary, and may well be exacerbated by emotional issues, there is no getting away from the fact that we are programmed to be consumers from a very young age, due to the irrepressible pervasiveness of capitalist ideology. Itís a lifestyle choice that is subtly reinforced in movies, music, books and newspapers, and to our peril we are often sadly oblivious to the overwhelming force of this doctrine.
Any explanation for debt and spending that ignores such fundamental structural factors is totally deficient. Itís like offering a cough lozenge as a cure for the cold ñ it might alleviate the symptoms but it doesnít tackle the root cause.
As Foucault described, what is deemed to be ìcommon senseî or ëtrue knowledgeí is entirely determined by power. In the same way that we can see biases and political distortions of reality in old religious teachings, the forces of the world capitalist system dictate that our education, and so what we accept by way of explanation hinges upon one vital premise: That our society is right. The way we do things is right, our place in the world is right and justified because we in the western world are thus far the pinnacle of evolution. We have attained wealth and power because we do things the way they should and must be done, and the rest of the world should learn from us. Therefore, we are moulded to believe that it is absolutely inconceivable to accept a diagnosis of any problem that challenges this assumption.
However, things are a very long way from being right. And one of the manifestations of this non-rightness is the steadily growing income gap between rich and poor that the UK and US have been undergoing for about 25 years now. This has the painful consequence of offering an intensifying amount of luxury to a decreasing number of people, and one of the derivatives of this effect is that people will become increasingly indebted by trying to ëkeep up with the neighboursí.
Thatís the reality. However, one does not get very far in society by challenging the status quoÖ
In the savannahs of southern Ethiopia and northern Kenya there are many pastoralist tribes whose subsistence depends upon cattle rearing. They are frequently described by other members of their societies as having a ìcattle-complexî ñ an irrational, obsessive worship of cattle that is deeply ingrained in their culture. However, there is in fact nothing irrational about their obsession, because their subsistence is primarily dependent upon cattle, and so their societies have evolved to developed a ritualistic idealisation of cattle rearing, in which ones very social status hinges on perfecting this vital skill upon which society critically depends.
We, however, live in a technocratic capitalist society, whereby our economy is fuelled by indiscriminate consumption ñ spending on possessions, without regard for how necessary this spending might be. For our entire lives we have been bombarded with a consumerist, materialist ideology, whereby our status within society is primarily determined not by our acts of altruism, feats of strength, or rearing of cattle, but by our wealth, which is displayed in our houses, cars, clothes, holidays etc. While the individual reasons for peoples spending will obviously vary, and may well be exacerbated by emotional issues, there is no getting away from the fact that we are programmed to be consumers from a very young age, due to the irrepressible pervasiveness of capitalist ideology. Itís a lifestyle choice that is subtly reinforced in movies, music, books and newspapers, and to our peril we are often sadly oblivious to the overwhelming force of this doctrine.
Any explanation for debt and spending that ignores such fundamental structural factors is totally deficient. Itís like offering a cough lozenge as a cure for the cold ñ it might alleviate the symptoms but it doesnít tackle the root cause.
As Foucault described, what is deemed to be ìcommon senseî or ëtrue knowledgeí is entirely determined by power. In the same way that we can see biases and political distortions of reality in old religious teachings, the forces of the world capitalist system dictate that our education, and so what we accept by way of explanation hinges upon one vital premise: That our society is right. The way we do things is right, our place in the world is right and justified because we in the western world are thus far the pinnacle of evolution. We have attained wealth and power because we do things the way they should and must be done, and the rest of the world should learn from us. Therefore, we are moulded to believe that it is absolutely inconceivable to accept a diagnosis of any problem that challenges this assumption.
However, things are a very long way from being right. And one of the manifestations of this non-rightness is the steadily growing income gap between rich and poor that the UK and US have been undergoing for about 25 years now. This has the painful consequence of offering an intensifying amount of luxury to a decreasing number of people, and one of the derivatives of this effect is that people will become increasingly indebted by trying to ëkeep up with the neighboursí.
Thatís the reality. However, one does not get very far in society by challenging the status quoÖ
#8
Deb
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Posted 25 May 2005 - 04:03 AM
I agree our economy depends on consumption and much of it is indiscriminate, or at least not necessary. And we are programmed to be consumers. But is saving for anything other than a bit of working capital to get you by if need be, 'rainy day' money, any more rational than consuming? If you can afford, for example, a decent car, provided you don't have to go into debt to buy it, is it not the more rational decision to pay the extra and drive a decent car than it is to drive around in a car you don't enjoy driving just for the sake of having an extra £20,000 in the bank? It's not just about status but what you want for yourself. Why drive around in a 15 year old mini if you would prefer a four wheel drive and can afford one?
I don't like debt but in a way saving to me is equally irrational. Take people who can afford a decent house but insist on living in a flat that's too small for them, just to save money, then wonder why they feel stressed and claustrophobic. Sure, they don't 'need' a bigger space to live in. But what reason is there for them to save the money? I know an older lady who wants to go on a cruise around Alaska, but won't take out a reverse mortgage on her house to finance it because she doesn't want to destroy her children's inheritance. Preserving assets that you have earned for someone else's use, and sacrificing your own desires and growth in the process, is completely irrational to me.
I wonder if non housing related debt will continue to increase here. I was very surprised to see a report in recent days saying that for the first time in many years the amount of credit card debt had fallen. If this turns out to be a trend rather than a one off blip, if people really do start to rein in their spending and only spend what they have earned, I suspect it will put a large number of people out of work.
I don't like debt but in a way saving to me is equally irrational. Take people who can afford a decent house but insist on living in a flat that's too small for them, just to save money, then wonder why they feel stressed and claustrophobic. Sure, they don't 'need' a bigger space to live in. But what reason is there for them to save the money? I know an older lady who wants to go on a cruise around Alaska, but won't take out a reverse mortgage on her house to finance it because she doesn't want to destroy her children's inheritance. Preserving assets that you have earned for someone else's use, and sacrificing your own desires and growth in the process, is completely irrational to me.
I wonder if non housing related debt will continue to increase here. I was very surprised to see a report in recent days saying that for the first time in many years the amount of credit card debt had fallen. If this turns out to be a trend rather than a one off blip, if people really do start to rein in their spending and only spend what they have earned, I suspect it will put a large number of people out of work.
#9 Guest_Disco_*
Posted 20 June 2005 - 01:08 AM
Hi Marina,
Just to say that a small business making only a £500 loss in the first twelve months of trading is actually very good going indeed, have you or has anyone else looked into your business plan and forecasts to determine when your break even point should be ?
Maybe you could take advice on areas to increase profitability and bring your break even point foward ?
Disco
Just to say that a small business making only a £500 loss in the first twelve months of trading is actually very good going indeed, have you or has anyone else looked into your business plan and forecasts to determine when your break even point should be ?
Maybe you could take advice on areas to increase profitability and bring your break even point foward ?
Disco
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