Thank you for your reply. I really appreciate that. I never expected a reply. Thank you.
I am not sure really what you need to know? As to the past, I consider that I had a generally happy childhood. We lived in an isolated area so I had no contact with other kids until starting school. I had a loving, attentive Mum and thoroughly enjoyed my childhood. However, Dad was strict and emotionally distant. He was always saying ìDonít do thisî, ìDonít do thatî, I felt I was a nuisance. While I was a child I didnít feel loved by him, though as an adult I know that to be wrong and it was simply he is the sort of person who is not good at displaying their feelings.. Primary school was happy. Everything fine until 11. I felt things started to go wrong at high school. Picked on continuously for 5 years by rest of my year, I think because I was quiet, not good at standing up for myself. It was never physical bullying but psychological: Exclusion, criticism, teasing. I learnt it was best to get by on my own, to keep at a distance from people. I retreated, became even quieter, kept to myself. When the bullying suddenly stopped when the bullies left school, it was such a relief. I could relax. But with the relief came the emotional after-effects of the past 5 years. I became anorexic, started drinking, had panic attacks etc. I turned to one of the teachers for support. He was fantastic, and really helped. Over time this support turned into a relationship which lasted six years. But it was an abusive relationship, psychologically. He kept me secret, supposedly because of the potential effects on his job. He would only see me if I wore clothes that matched his orders. He made me sign sexual ëcontractsí. He was a very dominant man and sexually sadistic in the extreme. I became more and more afraid of him and his fantasies, until I knew I had to stop seeing him and had to break away. Which I did. Since then I have never had a boyfriend, a time span which constitutes most of my adult life. Not because I donít like men, because I do, very much. But the men I am attracted to are always unsuitable. Usually of a higher social level than me, often quite a bit older, usually professional men. Itís always the same pattern ñ I fall deeply in love with them, gradually express this to them. They reject me. Then I realise how stupid I have been and am full of guilt and remorse, desperate to put things right with them, to apologise. The whole thing is emotionally very painful. Things settle down for a while and then I latch on to another inappropriate man and the same cycle repeats itself. I have had counselling to do with the ex-boyfriend, and am ok with that, but still feel there is a lot which is wrong with me.
But if or how this is connected with the debt problem, I really donít know. I think maybe one factor is that I seek out activities which make me feel happy, as a way of compensating for the aspects of life which make me unhappy, and those activities cost money, which has contributed in part to the debt. But apart from that I cannot see the correlation between the debt problem and the above mess. I have always considered them as completely separate areas of life, with no overlap. But last nightís TV programme has got me thinking that perhaps it could all be connected and that perhaps it is no coincidence that things seem to have gone so wrong in several seemingly completely separate areas of my life?
Reasons for Debt
#2
Benjamin Fry 
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Posted 26 March 2005 - 05:20 PM
I'm sorry to hear about your diffiucties in the past. It is likely to have affected your behaviour in the present, some of which may have financial consequences.
Can you please explain more about how you are getting into debt in the present. What do/did you spend your money on? How did it make you feel at the time?
If you were on the program, what would we confront you with to illustrate your spending?
Can you please explain more about how you are getting into debt in the present. What do/did you spend your money on? How did it make you feel at the time?
If you were on the program, what would we confront you with to illustrate your spending?
visit benjaminfry.co.uk for more information on my work
support getstable.org for better mental health treatment in the UK
support getstable.org for better mental health treatment in the UK
#3
Benjamin Fry
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Posted 27 March 2005 - 05:49 PM
Thank you for your personal message. I appreciate your concerns about discussing your issues publicly. I would reassure you though that this forum provides for your anonymity - even from me.
There are three reasons why I donít go into extensive private correspondence on this forum. (1) for every one who writes, there are others who read therefore a public correspondence helps more people than just yourself. (2) I make mistakes and others may not agree with me. A public reply protects you from my opinions and allows others to participate and support you. (3) Often misery is perpetuated by the fear of the consequences of telling the truth about who you are and how you feel. This anonymous forum can be the first step in confronting that fear.
Your financial problems are the product of two conflicting realities; a low income and an expensive compulsive behaviour pattern. It is clear that this behaviour is so addictive that you would pay anything to do it regardless of the long-term consequences. This suggests a strong emotional need which can not be disarmed by the logic of financial reality. The origins of this emotional need must be understood so that it can be diffused. Then you will be able to moderate your behaviour automatically to better fit your financial picture. This is what we have done in the program.
You are right that the genesis of your issues is likely to be the lack of physical and emotional affection shown to you by your father. This is in turn likely to be why you seek out similar relationships in your adult life. It could also explain the behaviour that you describe in your personal message. There may be linked themes of elevated status, unobtainability, the promise of some kind of emotional nirvana and relative power in all three. (I would need more details to confirm).
The reason that you repeat behaviour that recreates your worst emotional traumas is difficult to understand at first, but relatively easy once carefully explained. That is exactly what I wrote my book to do, and it may or may not achieve that. If you look in the ìask Benjamin Fryî forum you will be able to read a number of examples of exactly what you are describing. (See for example the original topic begun by Marina).
If you would like to post your personal message here then I could respond to that issue in more depth. It is a fascinating example and I would be delighted to get to understand the exact dynamics of it in more detail.
There are three reasons why I donít go into extensive private correspondence on this forum. (1) for every one who writes, there are others who read therefore a public correspondence helps more people than just yourself. (2) I make mistakes and others may not agree with me. A public reply protects you from my opinions and allows others to participate and support you. (3) Often misery is perpetuated by the fear of the consequences of telling the truth about who you are and how you feel. This anonymous forum can be the first step in confronting that fear.
Your financial problems are the product of two conflicting realities; a low income and an expensive compulsive behaviour pattern. It is clear that this behaviour is so addictive that you would pay anything to do it regardless of the long-term consequences. This suggests a strong emotional need which can not be disarmed by the logic of financial reality. The origins of this emotional need must be understood so that it can be diffused. Then you will be able to moderate your behaviour automatically to better fit your financial picture. This is what we have done in the program.
You are right that the genesis of your issues is likely to be the lack of physical and emotional affection shown to you by your father. This is in turn likely to be why you seek out similar relationships in your adult life. It could also explain the behaviour that you describe in your personal message. There may be linked themes of elevated status, unobtainability, the promise of some kind of emotional nirvana and relative power in all three. (I would need more details to confirm).
The reason that you repeat behaviour that recreates your worst emotional traumas is difficult to understand at first, but relatively easy once carefully explained. That is exactly what I wrote my book to do, and it may or may not achieve that. If you look in the ìask Benjamin Fryî forum you will be able to read a number of examples of exactly what you are describing. (See for example the original topic begun by Marina).
If you would like to post your personal message here then I could respond to that issue in more depth. It is a fascinating example and I would be delighted to get to understand the exact dynamics of it in more detail.
visit benjaminfry.co.uk for more information on my work
support getstable.org for better mental health treatment in the UK
support getstable.org for better mental health treatment in the UK
#4
Terri
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Posted 27 March 2005 - 10:57 PM
Thank you for taking the time to reply to my personal message.
I can understand your reasons for only responding to queries within the forum, and they are good reasons. However, I really cannot post up my personal message as I would feel too vulnerable and exposed. It would only add to the stress. I realise it is anonymous here but I am worried of someone reading the board who might somehow recognise me from what I say, like friends or relatives or colleagues. I can understand your point about how secrecy can breed fear, and you are right, but so too can publicity if you are a private person. So maybe I will have to sort this stuff out on my own. But certainly your book sounds good and as if it might be quite helpful so I would be interesting in reading that, and will read the other areas of the forum too as you suggested.
You are so right when you explain how the origins of the emotional need for my addiction must be understood and diffused in order for it to stop. Thatís what I would like to be able to do. Very much. But how?
For the purposes of posting messages, - does the specific spending addiction I have really have to matter on here in terms of learning how to understand the emotional origins of it? Surely the dynamics of it would be similar whatever the addiction was ñ be it gambling, football, shopping, drinking or whatever? It is about escapism. Would it be possible to discuss this on here in more depth, as you suggested, without actually mentioning the specific addiction? Iíd be ok with that. It might also be more useful to other people then as well because I doubt many people could relate to my specific addiction as it is probably not that common?
As to the issues regarding my fatherís lack of affection when I was a child, and the way I seek similar relationships in adult life ñ how can that be changed? How can a vicious circle like that be broken? When the past has been and gone, how can it be put right? I canít change how my father was with me because it has already happened and history cannot be altered - so how can such negative feelings be exorcised so that they donít continue to cause problems in life now?
I can understand your reasons for only responding to queries within the forum, and they are good reasons. However, I really cannot post up my personal message as I would feel too vulnerable and exposed. It would only add to the stress. I realise it is anonymous here but I am worried of someone reading the board who might somehow recognise me from what I say, like friends or relatives or colleagues. I can understand your point about how secrecy can breed fear, and you are right, but so too can publicity if you are a private person. So maybe I will have to sort this stuff out on my own. But certainly your book sounds good and as if it might be quite helpful so I would be interesting in reading that, and will read the other areas of the forum too as you suggested.
You are so right when you explain how the origins of the emotional need for my addiction must be understood and diffused in order for it to stop. Thatís what I would like to be able to do. Very much. But how?
For the purposes of posting messages, - does the specific spending addiction I have really have to matter on here in terms of learning how to understand the emotional origins of it? Surely the dynamics of it would be similar whatever the addiction was ñ be it gambling, football, shopping, drinking or whatever? It is about escapism. Would it be possible to discuss this on here in more depth, as you suggested, without actually mentioning the specific addiction? Iíd be ok with that. It might also be more useful to other people then as well because I doubt many people could relate to my specific addiction as it is probably not that common?
As to the issues regarding my fatherís lack of affection when I was a child, and the way I seek similar relationships in adult life ñ how can that be changed? How can a vicious circle like that be broken? When the past has been and gone, how can it be put right? I canít change how my father was with me because it has already happened and history cannot be altered - so how can such negative feelings be exorcised so that they donít continue to cause problems in life now?
#5
Terri
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Posted 28 March 2005 - 03:54 PM
This is a PS to my last message. An afterthought.
One of the reasons for my hesitation about discussing my feelings on a public message board, albeit an anonymous one, is to do with being ashamed of them. My family have always been very dismissive of any mention of psychological/emotional type issues. Itís like ìWE DONíT TALK ABOUT THATî, and they think seeking any sort of help in that regard is a weakness. They think counselling and such like is a load of rubbish. When I was a teenager my doctor referred me to a psychiatrist after I took an overdose, but the vibes I got from my parents about seeing the psychiatrist were so negative that in the end I stopped seeing her. I was too uncomfortable with it and could not communicate with her because of the cloud of shame I felt hanging overhead during the appointments. Dad would refer to her as ìthe shrinkî and whenever I was taken for the appointments with the Psychiatrist Dad would often say ìYou donít need see herî and ìthereís nothing wrong with youî and ìitís a load of rubbishî etc. I was told it was a waste of the carís petrol driving to the appointments! Mum seemed of the same opinion, only her expression of it was more one of embarrassment. She would accompany me to the appointments, but once out of there nothing more was ever said about the content of the appointments, we just went back to the practical family life we were all familiar with. The whole thing was kind of brushed under the carpet as if it wasnít happening. I felt guilty at upsetting the family harmony. In retrospect I guess maybe their reactions were borne out of concern. Perhaps they realised that my having to see a psychiatrist was a clear sign that something was wrong, but that as the psychological and emotional side of life was one they played-down on, they didnít have the experience to feel able to help much themselves. So maybe they felt threatened or intimidated by it? I donít know, I am just guessing.
This experience has led me thereafter to be very hesitant and private about the expression of any personal problems. I try to deal with things myself, or if anyone else has to be involved then keep it on a strictly need-to-know basis. I donít share my parents dismissiveness of the importance of the psychological and emotional sides of life. On the contrary, I think they are very important. We are not just physical bodies but emotional ones too. However, I think the shame I was taught surrounding emotional difficulties has lingered on. I have had counselling in the past at two points since the brief spell with the psychiatrist, both of which I found helpful and was glad for the opportunity. One session lasted over a year. But so strong was my need for privacy that I made sure my family never knew anything of it. Nor did anyone except those agencies directly involved. I felt that was the only way I could do it and get any benefit from it, otherwise I would have been too ashamed and that would have been a barrier to progressing.
So it is not that I am being stubborn, awkward or dishonest by the hesitation to discuss things publically. It is because I am worried about the spectre of shame overshadowing things like it has in the past However, having now read most of the forum (and learnt quite a lot from it!), your advice and insight on my own issues is something I would value even more; and I donít want to risk losing that because of this need for privacy. So that is why I am trying to explain the background to it.
One of the reasons for my hesitation about discussing my feelings on a public message board, albeit an anonymous one, is to do with being ashamed of them. My family have always been very dismissive of any mention of psychological/emotional type issues. Itís like ìWE DONíT TALK ABOUT THATî, and they think seeking any sort of help in that regard is a weakness. They think counselling and such like is a load of rubbish. When I was a teenager my doctor referred me to a psychiatrist after I took an overdose, but the vibes I got from my parents about seeing the psychiatrist were so negative that in the end I stopped seeing her. I was too uncomfortable with it and could not communicate with her because of the cloud of shame I felt hanging overhead during the appointments. Dad would refer to her as ìthe shrinkî and whenever I was taken for the appointments with the Psychiatrist Dad would often say ìYou donít need see herî and ìthereís nothing wrong with youî and ìitís a load of rubbishî etc. I was told it was a waste of the carís petrol driving to the appointments! Mum seemed of the same opinion, only her expression of it was more one of embarrassment. She would accompany me to the appointments, but once out of there nothing more was ever said about the content of the appointments, we just went back to the practical family life we were all familiar with. The whole thing was kind of brushed under the carpet as if it wasnít happening. I felt guilty at upsetting the family harmony. In retrospect I guess maybe their reactions were borne out of concern. Perhaps they realised that my having to see a psychiatrist was a clear sign that something was wrong, but that as the psychological and emotional side of life was one they played-down on, they didnít have the experience to feel able to help much themselves. So maybe they felt threatened or intimidated by it? I donít know, I am just guessing.
This experience has led me thereafter to be very hesitant and private about the expression of any personal problems. I try to deal with things myself, or if anyone else has to be involved then keep it on a strictly need-to-know basis. I donít share my parents dismissiveness of the importance of the psychological and emotional sides of life. On the contrary, I think they are very important. We are not just physical bodies but emotional ones too. However, I think the shame I was taught surrounding emotional difficulties has lingered on. I have had counselling in the past at two points since the brief spell with the psychiatrist, both of which I found helpful and was glad for the opportunity. One session lasted over a year. But so strong was my need for privacy that I made sure my family never knew anything of it. Nor did anyone except those agencies directly involved. I felt that was the only way I could do it and get any benefit from it, otherwise I would have been too ashamed and that would have been a barrier to progressing.
So it is not that I am being stubborn, awkward or dishonest by the hesitation to discuss things publically. It is because I am worried about the spectre of shame overshadowing things like it has in the past However, having now read most of the forum (and learnt quite a lot from it!), your advice and insight on my own issues is something I would value even more; and I donít want to risk losing that because of this need for privacy. So that is why I am trying to explain the background to it.
#6 Guest_A Friendly Word_*
Posted 29 March 2005 - 04:03 AM
I would suggest, in the nicest possible way, that you really need to gather your courage and take the plunge. Telling your story, understanding it, and de-fusing its power to control your here-and-now, is one of the most important things you can do for yourself, and from it, everything else flows.
There is no way round it, whether you choose to tell a priest, a counsellor, an Anonymous group, for which I am sure you are well-qualified, or here on a completely anonymous website, where you will receive astonishingly intuitive feedback from Benjamin, plus support and friendsip from anyone who relates to your issues. These things may be new to you, but you may be surprised how many people here will identify with you and your story.
Just be brave, and be honest, with us and yourself, you don't know us, we don't know you -
All the best
There is no way round it, whether you choose to tell a priest, a counsellor, an Anonymous group, for which I am sure you are well-qualified, or here on a completely anonymous website, where you will receive astonishingly intuitive feedback from Benjamin, plus support and friendsip from anyone who relates to your issues. These things may be new to you, but you may be surprised how many people here will identify with you and your story.
Just be brave, and be honest, with us and yourself, you don't know us, we don't know you -
All the best
#7
Terri
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Posted 30 March 2005 - 04:38 PM
Ok. Iím not comfortable with this at allÖ it feels like putting it on the front page of a newspaper, and goes totally against the grainÖ.. but this is more or less what my PM to Benjamin said (I have cut it down a bit as it droned on too much, and there are a couple of bits Iíve added which have since occurred to me)
Financially speaking, things are bad. I calculated today that itís £14,500. Which, to me, is the most incredible amount of debt imaginable. I am on a low wage, despite working full-time, and am told it will take 20 years to get straight, - which is too depressing to even think about. I have had assistance from a debt management company, who have been great and most of my creditors have agreed to their offers of repayment. But the oppression of it all is wearing me out, the prospect of living most of my working life just to get straight. Whilst the majority of my debts have been incurred as a result of my low household income, inflation, large bills etc, - I admit that it is partly self-induced as well. I donít expect anyone else to understand this, but here goesÖ
This is going to sound so pathetic, - but I think one contributory factor has been my addiction to a music band. This gone on for years, leading to me to travel all over the country to see them and having seen them nearly 90 times. This involves expenditure on tickets, accommodation, transport and spending money, - all of which quickly mount up. The frequency of this has increased markedly over the past 3 years or so, in line with my increasing debt. Last year, despite being in a terrible state of debt and just before I was advised that bankruptcy was my only option, I went to 21 gigs ñ the most ever in a year. WHY?? How could I be so irresponsible?? Whatís going on?? I obviously couldnít afford it and KNEW I couldnít afford it. It was completely stupid. But it was like I HAD to go, a compulsion. This addiction to the band has also led to me buying every recording ever made by them in every format! Even though they all sound identical. Why?? Is it because owning their merchandise makes me feel closer to them? Is it a way of trying to get some self-worth by being a dedicated fan? Or is it simply greed and lack of self-control?
The main reason for this addiction to the band is their music. Ever since first hearing it I have loved it, admired it. It makes me happy and elated. It reaches me on a deep, emotional level. The addiction started off simply as this love of their music. Going to their gigs and listening to their music was/is a form of escapism. When I am at a gig or listening to their music I can switch off from the negative things in life. I feel happy, free, exhilarated. It is an incredible high. Itís like a drug. It lifts me up. Their music is also supportive, reassuring. What I mean is that as I love the music so much I listen to it frequently and it has been something constant through all the ups and downs of life. It is something which is always there, which I can rely on and take comfort from.
On top of that, over the years I have actually got to know the band personally to some degree, they are people I care about a lot. Plus their semi kind of rock star lifestyle is so completely different from my own normal boring and isolated life that this brush with it is again kind of escapism. I love being on tour, feeling part of the entourage. It is a feeling of belonging. The other compelling factor is the number of fellow fans I have made friends with over the years. There can often be about 50 of us converging at a venue. We all meet up, go to the gigs together, then chat/party afterwards. It is really exhilarating and great fun. This is such a high for me and there is such a sense of camaraderie. Again this social scene is so completely different to my normal lifestyle, and it is like I am a different person. I seem to be more confident and outgoing, happier, feel more accepted. The whole thing is escapism. I can be free, can relax, can leave the negativity behind for a while.
In contrast there feels to be so much wrong with my normal life. Career (if you can call it that), relationships, friendships. I hate who I am, emotionally, physically, the lack of personality and development. I just crawl along in the same rut year after year feeling trapped and frustrated, and as life is passing me by; yet donít seem to have the strength of will to change. So much feels wrong I wish I could wipe it all out and start again. There are lots of positive things, yes. I have good health, pets, family, a roof over my head, live in a lovely area, am physically comfortable in terms of day-to-day existence. There are so many people in far worse situations that it seems selfish to be unhappy. But I feel emotionally barren, sterile, cut off from the world. I feel somehow stunted in terms of being a whole and balanced person, as if I have been left behind. It is hard to explain. The music is something which detracts from this general negativity.
But this compulsion to go to gigs, beyond what I can afford, I feel has certainly contributed to my debt situation and is a problem. On the one hand I am deeply aware of the seriousness of my financial state. The threat of bankruptcy terrified me and I have really tried hard to get things in order over the past months. The agency I am working with have been fantastic and a great support, and I know I have to make this work. I donít need to be shocked into facing the seriousness of my situation ñ I am already well aware of it and under no illusions. However, on the other hand I cannot stop going to gigs. I am really frightened of the lack of control I have when it comes to the band. I know it is useless trying to force myself not to go to any. So I try and set a limit.. But as the tours come nearer I find myself thinking ìmaybe I could just add in such-and-such a gig?î. I make excuses to myself to justify it, like ìSeeing as these two gigs are in the same area maybe I could go to them bothî or ìSo-and-so is going to be at that gig; itíd be great to see them againî. If I miss gigs I can get very depressed, tearful, everything feels hopeless.
I bet all this sounds so pathetic and weak? It does to me, reading it back. If I was a third party reading this Iíd probably be angry and thinking ìFor f***ís sake, take some responsibility! Face reality!î, and yes, I know that is true. But so much of my life is a mess and itís like the band/the music is one thing above all else which can take me away from the negative things, make me feel free and alive and happy. Itís the emotional release, sense of belonging, the warmth and companionship of everyone. Practically speaking, I have to make my finances work, - but how can I give up the music and gigs when they are such a big part of my life and such an important source of happiness?
So there it is. This is why Benjaminís TV programme struck such a chord with me, and why I would really value some of his insight and advice.
#8
Benjamin Fry
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Posted 30 March 2005 - 09:34 PM
You've taken a very big step. Well done. One of the answers to what you can do to help yourself is to do exactly what you have just done. I'm very busy filming this week but will address your issue more fully in due course.
visit benjaminfry.co.uk for more information on my work
support getstable.org for better mental health treatment in the UK
support getstable.org for better mental health treatment in the UK
#9 Guest_Guest_terri_*
Posted 30 March 2005 - 09:44 PM
Thank you for your acknowledgement, and I will look forward to any comments you have, when you are able.
I still feel very vulnerable in having posted all that, but at the same time quite a relief as well, which wasn't expected
I still feel very vulnerable in having posted all that, but at the same time quite a relief as well, which wasn't expected
#10 Guest_Isabel_*
Posted 01 April 2005 - 12:48 PM
I would like to add that I feel full of respect for you in sharing your problems, and I was struck that you feel like we should all punish you and tell you to grow up. Well, you don't need that and I feel like you are longing for love and support because that's what that band seems to represent to you. I think you made a start on a journey of finding out who you are and how you could care for your real self. I found the phrase in one of your texts "there's so much wrong with me" saddening, because although you have your problems which you are trying to overcome, there is nothing wrong with you fundamentally as a person. I say that because I have taken a course of therapy over the last 2 years and I realise that whatever decisions and mistakes I have made, I am just a human being with my vulnerabilities like everyone else. I deserve to have my voice heard. Your parents sounded like they gave you conflicting messages about you and didn't accept you very well as you were. You don't have to believe their view of you. If talking to a counsellor or psychiatrist helps you, why not trust in that. I am reading this message board because I have run up debts in the last few years of £6000 which is something I never used to do. I am starting to change now and I link my spending (on clothes) with my search for a feeling of "good enough". I related to Benjamin's words to Rudo that spending can be like trying to fill a bottomless hole. I know now that I don't get long-term fulfilment when I keep spending, just an ache that comes back stronger. Feeling my feelings and allowing them is the key for me. Best wishes, Isabel.
#11
Benjamin Fry
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Posted 12 April 2005 - 01:49 PM
Terri,
Thank you for your contribution to the forum. My apologies for taking so long to reply.
Your issues with money seem to be a by-product of an addiction. This is very common. Yours is a very unusual form of addiction but no less important to recognise as such than something like needing drink or drugs. The way that you describe your reaction to this band and its music is the same as an addictís response to a drug. You are liberated from your suffering and put into an alternate reality. Given how hard you describe your emotional existence, it is therefore not surprising that you are so driven to obtain this altered state despite its effects on your finances.
The key to changing is to identify why you need this drug and what the drug actually represents. It is hard for me to speculate on the latter because I donít know the name of the band or its music. However you have given many clues about the former. You grew up with an emotionally distant father, and perhaps were also afraid of him. You would have longed for a closer and safer relationship. On top of this you suffered at school. No-one rescued you from this suffering. You may have unconsciously attaching this lack of safety to the distant relationship with your father. As a consequence, in your adult life you began to crave father figures for relationships. This seems to be characterised by older men with status: these are men who could keep you safe. You started with the teacher, and it is clear from that relationship how vulnerable you actually made yourself by putting yourself in the care of someone you had hoped would keep you safe. From then on your relationships with men were complicated by this unconscious need for something extra from a male relationship and your poor experiences in the past.
On top of all of this, you grew up with very strong messages about the shame and danger of talking about yourself and your feelings. This closed the door on the one way that you could have taken care of your needs in a healthy way. Your description of your parentsí reaction to your suicide attempt is shocking. They were clearly more afraid of dialogue and the truth than they were of their own daughterís death. This shows graphically just how threatening unprocessed feelings can be. You too suffer from this threat. It was what made it so hard for you to post your story here.
It is likely therefore that the music you have found fulfils a number of desperate needs for you. Firstly it reaches you on an emotional level and speaks to a very lonely part of you that didnít feel nurtured and cherished, particularly by men. Secondly, it is an outlet for your feelings that doesnít carry a family stigma: music it seems is not frowned upon in the same way as psychiatry was. Thirdly, there is a social dimension that has come along with the music which presses all of your buttons: the band brings status and a carefree lifestyle (carefree often unconsciously equals lack of needs and therefore a safe life) and relationships. All of these you have lacked your whole life.
If you are to recover from this addiction you need to work from two directions. You start with the presenting problem and change your behaviour. So the first task is to just stop spending money on the band. Then you need to support this by tackling the underlying problem, which in your case is a great deal of unprocessed feelings left over from your childhood. Both are very hard to do, which is why you are so taken by the addiction.
To support the first, you will need to look at what you get from the band and replace it with more healthy support systems. You can of course always listen to their music. But you should also use this music as a launch pad for your own emotional work. Write a journal as you listen. Write memories, thoughts, associations. Try to externalise your feelings. Use the music as a safe refuge from where to rebuild your psyche. You will need to replace the groupie scene with a different group. Look for a free support group in your area. You could try Debtors Anonymous which is a 12-step group and free. There may be others such as group therapy offered via your local hospital or GP. It is hard on a low income to find a safe place to work on your feelings, and particularly since you are programmed to regard this as shameful and alienating for your family. However you can see from your strong addiction to the bandís group how much you really need this kind of support. Please do your best to find it.
To help you to cope with these changes it would be great if you could get some one-to-one counselling to talk through the issues from the past. I know that you have done this in the past but it seems that there is work left to do (there always is!). If you can find a way to get some help like this it will give you a safe space in which to unpack the distress that you will feel at missing out on your important emotional crutch. But more importantly than that, it will give you a chance to think through the issues that the band represent for you. You will find that once you can identify these themes of status and liberation for yourself and connect them to your own past and experiences, the band will become more mortal and your own desire to heal your own emotional scars will take over.
Another hurdle you face is that when you stop the overspending, you will be left with an exact account of it. That is the damage that you have done to your life. You are already overwhelmed by it, but ironically it can become worse before it becomes better because if you stop, then there it is. If you carry on, then you donít yet have to quantify what you have lost. Obviously it is important to stop, so start to put some pieces of the support system in place. This will help you when you begin your recovery from this addiction.
The bottom line here is that you have to replace what this band represents to you with something more healthy, direct and real. It will be hard to identify at first, and harder still to replace, but you can do it. Once you regain control over your life, you will find that you can become happier without the crutch of following this band. And there will be financial rewards both from spending less money and perhaps from earning more as you grow in self-worth and confidence.
Thank you for your contribution to the forum. My apologies for taking so long to reply.
Your issues with money seem to be a by-product of an addiction. This is very common. Yours is a very unusual form of addiction but no less important to recognise as such than something like needing drink or drugs. The way that you describe your reaction to this band and its music is the same as an addictís response to a drug. You are liberated from your suffering and put into an alternate reality. Given how hard you describe your emotional existence, it is therefore not surprising that you are so driven to obtain this altered state despite its effects on your finances.
The key to changing is to identify why you need this drug and what the drug actually represents. It is hard for me to speculate on the latter because I donít know the name of the band or its music. However you have given many clues about the former. You grew up with an emotionally distant father, and perhaps were also afraid of him. You would have longed for a closer and safer relationship. On top of this you suffered at school. No-one rescued you from this suffering. You may have unconsciously attaching this lack of safety to the distant relationship with your father. As a consequence, in your adult life you began to crave father figures for relationships. This seems to be characterised by older men with status: these are men who could keep you safe. You started with the teacher, and it is clear from that relationship how vulnerable you actually made yourself by putting yourself in the care of someone you had hoped would keep you safe. From then on your relationships with men were complicated by this unconscious need for something extra from a male relationship and your poor experiences in the past.
On top of all of this, you grew up with very strong messages about the shame and danger of talking about yourself and your feelings. This closed the door on the one way that you could have taken care of your needs in a healthy way. Your description of your parentsí reaction to your suicide attempt is shocking. They were clearly more afraid of dialogue and the truth than they were of their own daughterís death. This shows graphically just how threatening unprocessed feelings can be. You too suffer from this threat. It was what made it so hard for you to post your story here.
It is likely therefore that the music you have found fulfils a number of desperate needs for you. Firstly it reaches you on an emotional level and speaks to a very lonely part of you that didnít feel nurtured and cherished, particularly by men. Secondly, it is an outlet for your feelings that doesnít carry a family stigma: music it seems is not frowned upon in the same way as psychiatry was. Thirdly, there is a social dimension that has come along with the music which presses all of your buttons: the band brings status and a carefree lifestyle (carefree often unconsciously equals lack of needs and therefore a safe life) and relationships. All of these you have lacked your whole life.
If you are to recover from this addiction you need to work from two directions. You start with the presenting problem and change your behaviour. So the first task is to just stop spending money on the band. Then you need to support this by tackling the underlying problem, which in your case is a great deal of unprocessed feelings left over from your childhood. Both are very hard to do, which is why you are so taken by the addiction.
To support the first, you will need to look at what you get from the band and replace it with more healthy support systems. You can of course always listen to their music. But you should also use this music as a launch pad for your own emotional work. Write a journal as you listen. Write memories, thoughts, associations. Try to externalise your feelings. Use the music as a safe refuge from where to rebuild your psyche. You will need to replace the groupie scene with a different group. Look for a free support group in your area. You could try Debtors Anonymous which is a 12-step group and free. There may be others such as group therapy offered via your local hospital or GP. It is hard on a low income to find a safe place to work on your feelings, and particularly since you are programmed to regard this as shameful and alienating for your family. However you can see from your strong addiction to the bandís group how much you really need this kind of support. Please do your best to find it.
To help you to cope with these changes it would be great if you could get some one-to-one counselling to talk through the issues from the past. I know that you have done this in the past but it seems that there is work left to do (there always is!). If you can find a way to get some help like this it will give you a safe space in which to unpack the distress that you will feel at missing out on your important emotional crutch. But more importantly than that, it will give you a chance to think through the issues that the band represent for you. You will find that once you can identify these themes of status and liberation for yourself and connect them to your own past and experiences, the band will become more mortal and your own desire to heal your own emotional scars will take over.
Another hurdle you face is that when you stop the overspending, you will be left with an exact account of it. That is the damage that you have done to your life. You are already overwhelmed by it, but ironically it can become worse before it becomes better because if you stop, then there it is. If you carry on, then you donít yet have to quantify what you have lost. Obviously it is important to stop, so start to put some pieces of the support system in place. This will help you when you begin your recovery from this addiction.
The bottom line here is that you have to replace what this band represents to you with something more healthy, direct and real. It will be hard to identify at first, and harder still to replace, but you can do it. Once you regain control over your life, you will find that you can become happier without the crutch of following this band. And there will be financial rewards both from spending less money and perhaps from earning more as you grow in self-worth and confidence.
visit benjaminfry.co.uk for more information on my work
support getstable.org for better mental health treatment in the UK
support getstable.org for better mental health treatment in the UK
#12
Terri
- Newbie
-
- Group: Members
- Posts: 8
- Joined: 25-March 05
Posted 16 April 2005 - 07:15 PM
Benjamin,
Thank you so much for your reply. I have only just seen your message and so need time to read it through thoroughly and take it all in before replying to the points you raised; but I would just like to say that the timing of your message is very apt, as I have just returned from seeing the band.
Whilst having had a brilliant time on tour, as always, the return home and assessment of my finances has made me feel at rock bottom. This jolt back to reality, together with reading through your helpful and understanding reply, has made me realise I have to start doing something about this mess right now. Not tomorrow or the day after, but now.
As much as I love the band and need these tours, I cannot go on like this. You are so right that I have to find a way to stop. Having just been through my post-tour finances I feel sick with worry, not knowing how to juggle things and with no money even for food for the rest of the month. I had been doing so well this year since being threatened with bankruptcy, sticking hard to my budget, but the whole situation I am in ñ the huge debt, the relationship issues, the depression is always there hanging over me. Sometimes the need to escape from it is overwhelming, and this is what happens when I see the band. It is definitely a ëneedí rather than a ëwantí. However, the problem is that whilst the tours are a temporary emotional relief, in practical terms it does in fact make the situation far worse by adding to the debt.
I am going to print out your reply so I can read through it again and take-in your advice. Whilst I feel very low at the moment, having just finished the tour and facing the cost of it once again, your reply has given me some much needed encouragement and support. It has also reinforced the knowledge that I really do have to stop this addiction right now. Thank you.
Thank you so much for your reply. I have only just seen your message and so need time to read it through thoroughly and take it all in before replying to the points you raised; but I would just like to say that the timing of your message is very apt, as I have just returned from seeing the band.
Whilst having had a brilliant time on tour, as always, the return home and assessment of my finances has made me feel at rock bottom. This jolt back to reality, together with reading through your helpful and understanding reply, has made me realise I have to start doing something about this mess right now. Not tomorrow or the day after, but now.
As much as I love the band and need these tours, I cannot go on like this. You are so right that I have to find a way to stop. Having just been through my post-tour finances I feel sick with worry, not knowing how to juggle things and with no money even for food for the rest of the month. I had been doing so well this year since being threatened with bankruptcy, sticking hard to my budget, but the whole situation I am in ñ the huge debt, the relationship issues, the depression is always there hanging over me. Sometimes the need to escape from it is overwhelming, and this is what happens when I see the band. It is definitely a ëneedí rather than a ëwantí. However, the problem is that whilst the tours are a temporary emotional relief, in practical terms it does in fact make the situation far worse by adding to the debt.
I am going to print out your reply so I can read through it again and take-in your advice. Whilst I feel very low at the moment, having just finished the tour and facing the cost of it once again, your reply has given me some much needed encouragement and support. It has also reinforced the knowledge that I really do have to stop this addiction right now. Thank you.
#13
Terri
- Newbie
-
- Group: Members
- Posts: 8
- Joined: 25-March 05
Posted 18 April 2005 - 02:59 AM
Benjamin,
Thank you again for your reply to me. I have been thinking things over since first reading it yesterday, and what you have said is very accurate and makes a lot of sense. It is a strange time of night to be on the forum but I sometimes find it easier to think at night.
I cannot say who the band are. I am happy to PM the name to you, but to say so on here would be too identifying. What I can say is that they have been around for about 20 years, were at their height of success in the early 90ís and are fairly well known. However, they are not really part of the conventional music scene (eg they are not often on the radio or in the charts etc) and rather anti-establishment. They are very popular within their own circles, continue to have sell-out gigs, and are currently experiencing a new surge in popularity which is good. Their music is difficult to describe as it is so varied, but folk/punk would be a fair description. There is a strong fiddle element. They sound a bit Irish. Some of their songs are fast and furious, others soft and melodic. They span a wide range of emotions from anger, to love, and their lyrics are often politically-orientated. Their songs seem to appeal to people who feel somewhat outside of normal society, outcast, not belonging, not accepted. Their music seems to unite people and provide nurture and acceptance, a voice.
You explained the reasons why I need the band and its music actually far better than I ever could, and everything you described was spot-on. On thinking about it all thoroughly for the first time, and considering the points you have made, I agree that the heart of my need for the band has become all twisted up with the past.
The distant emotional relationship with my father when I was younger was not the only thing which I feel has affected me as I have grown up and which has contributed to the relationship problems as an adult. When I was about 6 or 7 there was some mild sexual abuse from my grandfather. My grandparents lived a long distance away and we only got to visit them a couple of times a year. My grandfather was disabled in a wheelchair. I can recall him wanting to hug me and have me sit on his lap. My memories of when the abuse began are blurred, maybe as I chose to forget, but I do remember him making me touch him intimately, pushing my hand into his lap. This was always when no-one else was around. I was confused, uncomfortable, but didnít understand why. I just knew something was not right, and I didnít want him touching me. On subsequent visits when he would try to pull me onto his lap I would skirt round his wheelchair out of his reach. I had the feelings from my family that I was being unaffectionate and shy, and felt guilty for not wanting to be near him. When my parents were out of the room he would try and encourage me to come nearer to him, to let him reach me, but I wouldnít. I felt guilty and disobedient, but was too uncomfortable to risk getting near him. I remember having a huge argument with my parents when I was about 7 or 8 when I flatly refused to visit my grandfather. I was screaming and crying and clinging onto the sofa to stop my parents dragging me off to see him. They must have thought I was having some sort of childish tantrum, and I think their main concern was how my grandfather would feel if I didnít go to visit. They were concerned at how upset he would be not to see his grandchild, and were worried he would think they were keeping me away. I couldnít explain the real reason why I wouldnít go, because I didnít understand it myself. I just knew he made me uncomfortable and something was wrong in the way he touched me. But how is a 7 year old supposed to explain that? So I just screamed and cried and used all my strength to physically resist. In the end they gave up arguing with me and visited him on their own. I never saw him again as he died some months after.
The next encounter with sexuality was at about 9 or 10 consisted of some abuse from a 16 year-old local boy, on several occasions. This boy had problems of his own, an alcoholic father and promiscuous mother, so I can understand now why he did it. But at time he frightened me so much I was afraid to leave the house in case he was lurking outside. The first time it occurred he forced me to go into a field with him. Afterwards when I went home my parents were furious with me for having disappeared without telling them where I was going. I never told them what had happened but in my mind their anger at me was associated with the abuse, I felt they were blaming me for it, implying I should not have gone to the field with him and it was my fault it happened. Obviously I know now that was wrong, as they had no idea what had happened, but the feeling that I was to blame kind of stuck with me and made feel ashamed and guilty about it. In the end the boy moved away from the area and gradually I put it out of my mind, and I feel I am ok with it now, but it is something I cannot ever forget.
I think that these two bad experiences, coupled with the fact of the emotionally distant relationship with my father, probably contributed to the lack of confidence which was apparent when I started High School. I guess that is one of the reasons I got picked on, because I was an easy target. The bullying eroded all my confidence and made me feel worthless. The boys were the worst, criticising my appearance. Calling me fat, ugly, and unattractive. I felt very unfeminine, and hurt by their comments. I did not like myself as it was, but to have these boys quantify my anxieties was horrible. I never felt able to tell any adults what was happening because it was all very intangible. There was nothing physical, no proof. If there were bruises or cuts to show then it would have been easier, but it was all psychological, emotional, and WE DONíT TALK ABOUT THAT, so I didnít feel my parents or anyone else could help. So you are right that I felt no-one rescued me from what was happening.
The relationship with my teacher was, I am sure, borne of wanting someone who would look after me and keep me safe and loved. He did at first, which is why when things became more intimate between us I trusted him and allowed him to lead me. But as you say I was so vulnerable at that point that I put myself in a dangerous situation. Even from the start of the relationship and the first indications of his dominance and sexual proclivities, I was uneasy with it, but I put my unease down to my lack of experience and lack of confidence. I really loved the man and wanted to please him, to make him happy. He was an older, confident, attractive man, someone respected and in a position of power. He was someone I felt safe with, and most of all ñ he wanted me!! He made me feel loved and nurtured. That had never happened before! He made me feel feminine and alive. Throughout the relationship I felt that consenting to his sadistic tendencies and strict rules was the price I had to pay if I wasnít to lose him. He knew that what he did hurt and upset me, but he did it anyway. If I expressed any concerns or inhibitions he would withdraw his affectionate side in some way as punishment, for instance treat me coldly or refuse to see me for a while. If anything displeased him he would make me aware I was treading on thin ice and had to keep him happy if we were to stay together. However, as time went on his fantasies and demands became more extreme. Wanting to cut me and draw blood, semi suffocation, extreme bondage, - dangerous stuff. He raped me on one occasion and I knew then he had crossed the line and things could only get worse. I became more and more scared of him to the extent I knew I had to stop seeing him and somehow find a way to stop loving him. It was a long and painful process, with a few lapses, but as time went on I gradually managed to distance myself and get over him. This was kind of made easier by the fact that he had started seeing another woman whilst still seeing me, something which was devastating at the time, and went on to have a child with her. The birth of the baby really defined the end of our relationship in my mind ñ at that point it became absolutely final in my mind.
For some months I went through a sort of limbo stage, where I locked away the emotions and memories of what had happened and just got used to living without him and getting on with life, but obviously it was something I couldnít ignore. Because of what had happened relationships with men were impossible for me, I was far too afraid and felt far too vulnerable. Any form of intimacy terrified me, even just talking for long on a one-to-one level. I decided it was time to face what had happened, and my GP referred me for counselling. This went on for two years. It took that long to just get over the trauma of what had been happening.
It was also ten years ago, around the time I was having the counselling to do with my ex-boyfriend, that I first encountered the bandís music. As soon as I heard it I loved it and it made me feel good and positive. It made me feel elated, happy, exhilarated. It made me feel free and alive. Listening to the music made me feel completely liberated. Thatís the word ñ liberated. Freed from all the negative feelings I had inside. The lyrics and energy of the music seemed to vocalise my feelings of not belonging, of being angry (at what had happened to me), of feeling that I didnít belong. The lyrics and ideals of the band seemed to call out to people unhappy with life, for whatever reason, and was as if they were saying ìWe are here. We understandî. It was a sense that ìYou donít have to put up with this. If we all stick together we can overcome the things that hurt and threaten usî.
At first I just listened to the music but then I decided to go and see them. It was an experience that blew me away. All the feelings that I had experienced in listening the music seemed to be multiplied in actually seeing them. It was the first gig I had ever been to so I stayed in the balcony, not being sure what to expect from the gig. However, I remember looking down to the dance floor and seeing hundreds of people leaping and dancing around, having the time of their life. They looked to me totally uninhibited, happy, really enjoying themselves. Carefree, as you say. I thought ìthatís how I want to beî. I resolved that the next time I saw the band I wanted to be down there on the dance floor and be part of it. The next time I saw the band, a year later, I did just that. It was every bit as exhilarating and liberating as I had thought it would be!! Things escalated then. The next year I went to 6 gigs, and thereafter it has been more and more every year. Every time I see the band or listen to their music it as is if all the good feelings they generate in me are reinforced. Things have taken on a deeper emotional element over the years, owing to gradually getting to know more and more fan friends, and also getting to know the band. Everything about the whole scene ñ the music, the band, the friends, the travelling ñ seeing new places, it is all positive and happy.
To summarise what the drug of the band represents, it is liberty. Freedom. Freedom and respite from the negative aspects of life which drag me down and depress me. Debts, work, relationships. It is about for a day or two, being able to shake off the shackles which pull me down and being able to dance and leap around, literally and metaphorically. To be with friends who share my love of the music, and feel I belong. At my age I should be settled in life. Should be married or in steady relationship, maybe with children. Should have a fulfilling and ideally profitable job. Should be confident and at ease with who I am. Should have something to show for my life. But it is all wrong. Debts, a job I donít enjoy and which is poorly paid, unable to form relationships. It is not how itís meant to be; I donít fit in. Whereas with the band I do fit in. The band is also about belonging, of feeling wanted and understood. Having just come back from a tour, all of these feelings are fresh in my mind and it is probably a good time to be addressing them.
Seeing it all typed out like this and really thinking about it for the first time, it is starting to make more sense. This is going to sound weird, but more than anything I think the band/music are somehow compensating for some of the emptiness in me which is yearning for a warm and loving relationship with a man. The longing to be nurtured and cherished. Just like you described. The fact that I first got into the music at a time when I was feeling very lonely and hurt, after the relationship with my ex-boyfriend had ended, I think is significant. That was the main issue which was happening at that time and influencing my thoughts and feelings the most. I had a lot of doubts about myself in relation to men. Wondering how I had got into the situation with my ex-boyfriend, what I had done to cause him to treat me the way he did, wondering what was wrong with me, feeling insecure, rejected, unloved. Then along comes the band and music and suddenly there was a way of escaping those negative feelings. As you say, they appealed to my emotions, they made me feel I belonged. And also, as you pointed out, there was also the status aspect. The band, being quite well known and famous (as well as all being male) would perhaps have compensated a bit for the loss of security I had sought from my ex-boyfriend, his confident, powerful status. I didnít feel safe with men, I felt vulnerable and afraid, and worried about ever getting into that same situation again (I still do). So I guess the music and the band were a safe alternative for an emotional connection. There was obviously no emotional or physical danger. Through the music and the band came the means of experiencing a level of emotional happiness and security without the danger of being harmed. I think that is how it all started. Since then it has also formed the temporary escape route, not just from negative feelings to do with relationships, but negative feelings in general.
Thank you for your suggestions of ways in which to start addressing these things. I have started reading your book, which I am hoping will help. It only arrived a few days ago so I have only just started, but am looking forward to getting into it. I have also got some other self-help type books through Amazon, which look quite helpful. Meanwhile, in terms of my problems with relationships, things came to a head a couple of months ago. I donít want to go into any detail about it but suffice it to say my GP has referred me to a psychiatrist on account of what happened. I am quite worried at the prospect of this, not least of all because of my last experiences involving a psychiatrist, but at the same time I am hoping this will prove to be a helpful thing. I am hoping they will be able to confirm or refute my fears that there is something wrong with me in terms of relationships, and also perhaps point me in the right direction of the best means of sorting all this out. So I guess this is a starting point?
The paragraph where you explain the hurdle where I will be left with an exact account of the overspending only when it stops is something which has happened already. It happened the day I sought advice from the Citizens Advice Bureau, the first time I told anyone about my debt, and was advised to consider bankruptcy. That was like being hit with a sledgehammer as it was the first time I had really faced the extent of the problem, it terrified me. Bankruptcy was something I could not and could never contemplate. I think my basic survival instincts kicked in then - I knew I had to find another solution and fast. So I explored options on the internet and made contact with a debt management company. They have been excellent and have provided lots of support in terms of negotiating repayments with my creditors, giving me information and reassurance whenever needed. It is reassuring to have them on my side, and I think from a practical point of view they are the best source of support I could have chosen. So from that side of things, I feel I am getting quite a lot of practical support. Your idea of perhaps joining up with some sort of local support group is something that may be worth considering though.
I am sorry this is so long and rambly. I am just typing out the thoughts and feelings as they occur. If it is too long and rambly, please feel free to delete it off the forum if you want. I donít want to clutter it up!
Anyway, thank you again for your reply. I really appreciate your help and understanding. You are very perceptive. This is a great forum and the help and advice you offer to people is something very valuable.
Thank you again for your reply to me. I have been thinking things over since first reading it yesterday, and what you have said is very accurate and makes a lot of sense. It is a strange time of night to be on the forum but I sometimes find it easier to think at night.
I cannot say who the band are. I am happy to PM the name to you, but to say so on here would be too identifying. What I can say is that they have been around for about 20 years, were at their height of success in the early 90ís and are fairly well known. However, they are not really part of the conventional music scene (eg they are not often on the radio or in the charts etc) and rather anti-establishment. They are very popular within their own circles, continue to have sell-out gigs, and are currently experiencing a new surge in popularity which is good. Their music is difficult to describe as it is so varied, but folk/punk would be a fair description. There is a strong fiddle element. They sound a bit Irish. Some of their songs are fast and furious, others soft and melodic. They span a wide range of emotions from anger, to love, and their lyrics are often politically-orientated. Their songs seem to appeal to people who feel somewhat outside of normal society, outcast, not belonging, not accepted. Their music seems to unite people and provide nurture and acceptance, a voice.
You explained the reasons why I need the band and its music actually far better than I ever could, and everything you described was spot-on. On thinking about it all thoroughly for the first time, and considering the points you have made, I agree that the heart of my need for the band has become all twisted up with the past.
The distant emotional relationship with my father when I was younger was not the only thing which I feel has affected me as I have grown up and which has contributed to the relationship problems as an adult. When I was about 6 or 7 there was some mild sexual abuse from my grandfather. My grandparents lived a long distance away and we only got to visit them a couple of times a year. My grandfather was disabled in a wheelchair. I can recall him wanting to hug me and have me sit on his lap. My memories of when the abuse began are blurred, maybe as I chose to forget, but I do remember him making me touch him intimately, pushing my hand into his lap. This was always when no-one else was around. I was confused, uncomfortable, but didnít understand why. I just knew something was not right, and I didnít want him touching me. On subsequent visits when he would try to pull me onto his lap I would skirt round his wheelchair out of his reach. I had the feelings from my family that I was being unaffectionate and shy, and felt guilty for not wanting to be near him. When my parents were out of the room he would try and encourage me to come nearer to him, to let him reach me, but I wouldnít. I felt guilty and disobedient, but was too uncomfortable to risk getting near him. I remember having a huge argument with my parents when I was about 7 or 8 when I flatly refused to visit my grandfather. I was screaming and crying and clinging onto the sofa to stop my parents dragging me off to see him. They must have thought I was having some sort of childish tantrum, and I think their main concern was how my grandfather would feel if I didnít go to visit. They were concerned at how upset he would be not to see his grandchild, and were worried he would think they were keeping me away. I couldnít explain the real reason why I wouldnít go, because I didnít understand it myself. I just knew he made me uncomfortable and something was wrong in the way he touched me. But how is a 7 year old supposed to explain that? So I just screamed and cried and used all my strength to physically resist. In the end they gave up arguing with me and visited him on their own. I never saw him again as he died some months after.
The next encounter with sexuality was at about 9 or 10 consisted of some abuse from a 16 year-old local boy, on several occasions. This boy had problems of his own, an alcoholic father and promiscuous mother, so I can understand now why he did it. But at time he frightened me so much I was afraid to leave the house in case he was lurking outside. The first time it occurred he forced me to go into a field with him. Afterwards when I went home my parents were furious with me for having disappeared without telling them where I was going. I never told them what had happened but in my mind their anger at me was associated with the abuse, I felt they were blaming me for it, implying I should not have gone to the field with him and it was my fault it happened. Obviously I know now that was wrong, as they had no idea what had happened, but the feeling that I was to blame kind of stuck with me and made feel ashamed and guilty about it. In the end the boy moved away from the area and gradually I put it out of my mind, and I feel I am ok with it now, but it is something I cannot ever forget.
I think that these two bad experiences, coupled with the fact of the emotionally distant relationship with my father, probably contributed to the lack of confidence which was apparent when I started High School. I guess that is one of the reasons I got picked on, because I was an easy target. The bullying eroded all my confidence and made me feel worthless. The boys were the worst, criticising my appearance. Calling me fat, ugly, and unattractive. I felt very unfeminine, and hurt by their comments. I did not like myself as it was, but to have these boys quantify my anxieties was horrible. I never felt able to tell any adults what was happening because it was all very intangible. There was nothing physical, no proof. If there were bruises or cuts to show then it would have been easier, but it was all psychological, emotional, and WE DONíT TALK ABOUT THAT, so I didnít feel my parents or anyone else could help. So you are right that I felt no-one rescued me from what was happening.
The relationship with my teacher was, I am sure, borne of wanting someone who would look after me and keep me safe and loved. He did at first, which is why when things became more intimate between us I trusted him and allowed him to lead me. But as you say I was so vulnerable at that point that I put myself in a dangerous situation. Even from the start of the relationship and the first indications of his dominance and sexual proclivities, I was uneasy with it, but I put my unease down to my lack of experience and lack of confidence. I really loved the man and wanted to please him, to make him happy. He was an older, confident, attractive man, someone respected and in a position of power. He was someone I felt safe with, and most of all ñ he wanted me!! He made me feel loved and nurtured. That had never happened before! He made me feel feminine and alive. Throughout the relationship I felt that consenting to his sadistic tendencies and strict rules was the price I had to pay if I wasnít to lose him. He knew that what he did hurt and upset me, but he did it anyway. If I expressed any concerns or inhibitions he would withdraw his affectionate side in some way as punishment, for instance treat me coldly or refuse to see me for a while. If anything displeased him he would make me aware I was treading on thin ice and had to keep him happy if we were to stay together. However, as time went on his fantasies and demands became more extreme. Wanting to cut me and draw blood, semi suffocation, extreme bondage, - dangerous stuff. He raped me on one occasion and I knew then he had crossed the line and things could only get worse. I became more and more scared of him to the extent I knew I had to stop seeing him and somehow find a way to stop loving him. It was a long and painful process, with a few lapses, but as time went on I gradually managed to distance myself and get over him. This was kind of made easier by the fact that he had started seeing another woman whilst still seeing me, something which was devastating at the time, and went on to have a child with her. The birth of the baby really defined the end of our relationship in my mind ñ at that point it became absolutely final in my mind.
For some months I went through a sort of limbo stage, where I locked away the emotions and memories of what had happened and just got used to living without him and getting on with life, but obviously it was something I couldnít ignore. Because of what had happened relationships with men were impossible for me, I was far too afraid and felt far too vulnerable. Any form of intimacy terrified me, even just talking for long on a one-to-one level. I decided it was time to face what had happened, and my GP referred me for counselling. This went on for two years. It took that long to just get over the trauma of what had been happening.
It was also ten years ago, around the time I was having the counselling to do with my ex-boyfriend, that I first encountered the bandís music. As soon as I heard it I loved it and it made me feel good and positive. It made me feel elated, happy, exhilarated. It made me feel free and alive. Listening to the music made me feel completely liberated. Thatís the word ñ liberated. Freed from all the negative feelings I had inside. The lyrics and energy of the music seemed to vocalise my feelings of not belonging, of being angry (at what had happened to me), of feeling that I didnít belong. The lyrics and ideals of the band seemed to call out to people unhappy with life, for whatever reason, and was as if they were saying ìWe are here. We understandî. It was a sense that ìYou donít have to put up with this. If we all stick together we can overcome the things that hurt and threaten usî.
At first I just listened to the music but then I decided to go and see them. It was an experience that blew me away. All the feelings that I had experienced in listening the music seemed to be multiplied in actually seeing them. It was the first gig I had ever been to so I stayed in the balcony, not being sure what to expect from the gig. However, I remember looking down to the dance floor and seeing hundreds of people leaping and dancing around, having the time of their life. They looked to me totally uninhibited, happy, really enjoying themselves. Carefree, as you say. I thought ìthatís how I want to beî. I resolved that the next time I saw the band I wanted to be down there on the dance floor and be part of it. The next time I saw the band, a year later, I did just that. It was every bit as exhilarating and liberating as I had thought it would be!! Things escalated then. The next year I went to 6 gigs, and thereafter it has been more and more every year. Every time I see the band or listen to their music it as is if all the good feelings they generate in me are reinforced. Things have taken on a deeper emotional element over the years, owing to gradually getting to know more and more fan friends, and also getting to know the band. Everything about the whole scene ñ the music, the band, the friends, the travelling ñ seeing new places, it is all positive and happy.
To summarise what the drug of the band represents, it is liberty. Freedom. Freedom and respite from the negative aspects of life which drag me down and depress me. Debts, work, relationships. It is about for a day or two, being able to shake off the shackles which pull me down and being able to dance and leap around, literally and metaphorically. To be with friends who share my love of the music, and feel I belong. At my age I should be settled in life. Should be married or in steady relationship, maybe with children. Should have a fulfilling and ideally profitable job. Should be confident and at ease with who I am. Should have something to show for my life. But it is all wrong. Debts, a job I donít enjoy and which is poorly paid, unable to form relationships. It is not how itís meant to be; I donít fit in. Whereas with the band I do fit in. The band is also about belonging, of feeling wanted and understood. Having just come back from a tour, all of these feelings are fresh in my mind and it is probably a good time to be addressing them.
Seeing it all typed out like this and really thinking about it for the first time, it is starting to make more sense. This is going to sound weird, but more than anything I think the band/music are somehow compensating for some of the emptiness in me which is yearning for a warm and loving relationship with a man. The longing to be nurtured and cherished. Just like you described. The fact that I first got into the music at a time when I was feeling very lonely and hurt, after the relationship with my ex-boyfriend had ended, I think is significant. That was the main issue which was happening at that time and influencing my thoughts and feelings the most. I had a lot of doubts about myself in relation to men. Wondering how I had got into the situation with my ex-boyfriend, what I had done to cause him to treat me the way he did, wondering what was wrong with me, feeling insecure, rejected, unloved. Then along comes the band and music and suddenly there was a way of escaping those negative feelings. As you say, they appealed to my emotions, they made me feel I belonged. And also, as you pointed out, there was also the status aspect. The band, being quite well known and famous (as well as all being male) would perhaps have compensated a bit for the loss of security I had sought from my ex-boyfriend, his confident, powerful status. I didnít feel safe with men, I felt vulnerable and afraid, and worried about ever getting into that same situation again (I still do). So I guess the music and the band were a safe alternative for an emotional connection. There was obviously no emotional or physical danger. Through the music and the band came the means of experiencing a level of emotional happiness and security without the danger of being harmed. I think that is how it all started. Since then it has also formed the temporary escape route, not just from negative feelings to do with relationships, but negative feelings in general.
Thank you for your suggestions of ways in which to start addressing these things. I have started reading your book, which I am hoping will help. It only arrived a few days ago so I have only just started, but am looking forward to getting into it. I have also got some other self-help type books through Amazon, which look quite helpful. Meanwhile, in terms of my problems with relationships, things came to a head a couple of months ago. I donít want to go into any detail about it but suffice it to say my GP has referred me to a psychiatrist on account of what happened. I am quite worried at the prospect of this, not least of all because of my last experiences involving a psychiatrist, but at the same time I am hoping this will prove to be a helpful thing. I am hoping they will be able to confirm or refute my fears that there is something wrong with me in terms of relationships, and also perhaps point me in the right direction of the best means of sorting all this out. So I guess this is a starting point?
The paragraph where you explain the hurdle where I will be left with an exact account of the overspending only when it stops is something which has happened already. It happened the day I sought advice from the Citizens Advice Bureau, the first time I told anyone about my debt, and was advised to consider bankruptcy. That was like being hit with a sledgehammer as it was the first time I had really faced the extent of the problem, it terrified me. Bankruptcy was something I could not and could never contemplate. I think my basic survival instincts kicked in then - I knew I had to find another solution and fast. So I explored options on the internet and made contact with a debt management company. They have been excellent and have provided lots of support in terms of negotiating repayments with my creditors, giving me information and reassurance whenever needed. It is reassuring to have them on my side, and I think from a practical point of view they are the best source of support I could have chosen. So from that side of things, I feel I am getting quite a lot of practical support. Your idea of perhaps joining up with some sort of local support group is something that may be worth considering though.
I am sorry this is so long and rambly. I am just typing out the thoughts and feelings as they occur. If it is too long and rambly, please feel free to delete it off the forum if you want. I donít want to clutter it up!
Anyway, thank you again for your reply. I really appreciate your help and understanding. You are very perceptive. This is a great forum and the help and advice you offer to people is something very valuable.
#15
Benjamin Fry
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Posted 18 April 2005 - 09:06 PM
Sexual abuse is something that is so much more widespread than we assume. It is also hugely damaging and often leaves you vunerable to more abuse as you have expereinced. Guilt is a big part of its legacy too and this would have been compounded by your granfather's death after you refused to visit him. One some level you would have internalised that if you said no to sex it would kill your abuser. I suspect this had a bearing on what happened later on in your history of abuse.
I wonder if perhaps your grandfather ever abused whichever of your parents was his child and if this or issues related to it might explain why they were so adamant that stuff could not be talked about. You have seen yourself how hard it is to let go and communicate about these issues. Congratulations for doing so here. I hope it helps.
On that theme Iíd like you to consider if it would be helpful for you to articulate in more detail what happened recently that resulted in you being referred to the psychiatrist. If you think it is a good exercise to share in this anonymous way then please feel free to continue to do so.
I feel that you sum up your view of yourself and your life at the end of your post. You suggest that your thoughts and feelings are too long and rambly and that I might want to delete them. You routinely delete them, donít you? Thatís been your coping mechanism and what you inherited from your parents. It is also why you feel left with so little in life.
I worry that you feel that you are cluttering up the world with something worthless that others would prefer to delete. This may be your fundamental view of yourself and could explain prior suicidal ideation.
Thereís not a chance in hell of me deleting your post. It is not clutter. It is the heart and soul of what this forum is about. I hope that one day you can reveal yourself so articulately and honestly to people face to face. Perhpas you can start with your new psychiatrist.
I wonder if perhaps your grandfather ever abused whichever of your parents was his child and if this or issues related to it might explain why they were so adamant that stuff could not be talked about. You have seen yourself how hard it is to let go and communicate about these issues. Congratulations for doing so here. I hope it helps.
On that theme Iíd like you to consider if it would be helpful for you to articulate in more detail what happened recently that resulted in you being referred to the psychiatrist. If you think it is a good exercise to share in this anonymous way then please feel free to continue to do so.
I feel that you sum up your view of yourself and your life at the end of your post. You suggest that your thoughts and feelings are too long and rambly and that I might want to delete them. You routinely delete them, donít you? Thatís been your coping mechanism and what you inherited from your parents. It is also why you feel left with so little in life.
I worry that you feel that you are cluttering up the world with something worthless that others would prefer to delete. This may be your fundamental view of yourself and could explain prior suicidal ideation.
Thereís not a chance in hell of me deleting your post. It is not clutter. It is the heart and soul of what this forum is about. I hope that one day you can reveal yourself so articulately and honestly to people face to face. Perhpas you can start with your new psychiatrist.
visit benjaminfry.co.uk for more information on my work
support getstable.org for better mental health treatment in the UK
support getstable.org for better mental health treatment in the UK
