[Stacie]

Hello. I hope that it is okay to talk about my children. I hope that I am in the right place. I have three children 9, 7, and 11 months. My 9 year old was diagnosed when she was little with ADHD, although I think she has grown out of it for the most part. She is not my problem. I am a parent with lots of patience (at least that is what everyone says). My seven year old is driving me crazy. She is on my last nerve and my marriage is ready to fall apart because of her. Well not because of her directly but because of her behavior and my husband and I argue over what type of discipline we should give her. I was able to get into our regular doctor who did recomend a therapist and a psychiatrist. She also mentioned that she may have ODD and Bipolar. I have searched on the internet to find out more about Bipolar. and I am completely confused. ALthough I am almost certain that she does have ODD. I am waiting to get an appt. for the therapist and psych. but in the meantime what can I do???? My husband and I argue all the time about this and the only thing we agree on is that we are ready to choke her. PLEASE someone help me!!!!!

[Benjamin Fry]

If you do an internet search on ADHD or ODD (for example on Google) you will find some resources that are offered to try to help parents in this very difficult situation. These are usually very practical ideas on how to basically retrain the child. You might find these useful.

My view (likely to be less useful) is that something doesnít come from nothing and that all behaviour has a communication. Children are actually by nature co-operative. They are born with an instinctive will to adapt and to fit into their circumstances because that is what keeps them alive (by being kept). Then of course life happens and everything goes haywire. Therefore Iím not a big fan of these kinds of diagnosis and labels. To me each child is an individual trying to express an individual emotion or issue. The less you listen to it, the more they will amplify the expression. The more you listen, the sooner the behaviour subsided. The fact that this has happened with two of your children suggests to me that there is something in the family which needs to be understood, articulated and listened to.

The problem with this is that my idea suggests the possibility that the child is not ill, but that the parents are not listening. Most parents are not open to this since it is understood by them to be something that ìblamesî the parents. Additionally the child is not going to just sit down and articulate the problem. Instead they will be ìdifficultî and it is up to the parent to guess the problem. You have to become the psychologist! This is further complicated by the great likelihood that whatever the problem is, the parent is usually not prepared to accept it. (remember that it is the childís perception that is the issue, not what really happens.) For example, if the kid is feeling that her mother favours her siblings, then this may be something that the mother just immediately dismisses, and does not listen to. (Even more likely if it is true.)

Iíve seen this many times in my own family. When the real cause of the distress is articulated for the child by the parent, then the child calms down and is loving and co-operative. Often though my wife has to do it for me and vice-versa because we canít see our own issues and mistakes. That takes a lot of trust and humility. Itís not nice to have to apologise to your kids and admit your mistakes.

I have no idea what is going on in your family, but if you are human beings then I can guess that there will be stuff that members of your family have feelings about which are unsaid. Therefore if you are looking for a way to start to help yourselves, you might try a little emotional housekeeping. This could involve some simple exercised.

Try to find some time to spend one-on-one with the two older children. Your mission is to get them to talk to you and for you to listen to them. Your husband should do the same. The issues that you might explore could be how they feel about the new baby, each other, you and your husband, who is getting the most attention, who misses who, who loves who the most, etc. You might get into this by reading a book together. There are lots of childrenís books that deal with these themes. Now the really important part is that if they do come up with something important, your job is to simply tell them what you have heard them say. Something like: ìI understand that you are missing me since the baby was bornî. And leave it at that. Keep any guilt or justification to yourself. Take it somewhere else.

The more there is to housekeep, the more you would have to do this. In the meantime, if it begins to work, you might see a change in the behaviour. It may be that either you nor our husband do not have the time to do this. In which case, you have probably found the first problem that your child is trying to articulate.

Children are actually relatively predictable. If you attend faithfully to their feelings and let them express themselves without denying them or rubbishing them, then youíll find that their basic instinct is to fit in. Disruptive behaviour is their last resort to let you know that you have not provided these opportunities. Just like with adults, you can either listen to this or medicate it. Neither is an easy choice.

[Stacie]

First I would like to say thank you for your reply. You have said a lot of helpful things but on the other hand, as you said, you don't know my story completely. The first thing would be to say, the problem that I have had with my daughter is NOT a recent thing. This has been going on since she was 2, the doctor's kept telling me it was, "terrible two's". They told me it was a phase, a part of life. I kept holding on to that. It has now been five years so it's time to take further action. When I was a child, my family never talked about anything. If there was a problem- you ignore it and hope that it goes a way. I don't raise my children like this, when there is a problem we confront it head on and discuss it. I have always been open and honest with my children and ask on a daily basis how things are going. I have asked my daughter to express how she feels, we do discuss the baby and how things have changed. She nevers expresses any type of resentment. I know that there is an underlying problem. She is very angry and aggressive and simply defiant. She is loses her temper at the drop of a hat where she throws anything in sight to deliberately hurt someone. She is spiteful and vindictive. If you make her mad because you tell her to clean her room she will intentionally get even with you by taking scissors and cutting the curtains in her room. I could go on and on but there is no point. In a perfect world, I could sit home all day and cater to her but that is never going to happen. What then are we teaching our children? I need to know how to use some kind of behavior modification! Thanks again

[Benjamin Fry]

Thanks for filling in some of the background.

Two is the age at which the child first has enough physical independence to express the kinds of anger and defiance that you describe. Up until that age these kinds of feelings mostly go repressed because the child is almost literally unable to either physically or mentally be sufficiently uncooperative to express it. However what this shows you is that there is something there that needed to be expressed. This doesnít come from nowhere.

Now imagine being unable to move, talk or understand anything that was said to you. Imagine being like this for months on end. Thatís what it is like for an infant. Therefore it is understandable that some frustrations will accrue. The first chance the child gets they will try to release these frustrations. Hence the tag ìterrible twosî. I think that this is a little pejorative myself. I prefer to think of the child as reaching an age of healthy expression. The more ìterribleî this is, the more frustration that the child has internalised (this could be because of real events, imagined ones, or just a very sensitive nature).

Now in your case you say this phase never passed. This makes me wonder how you responded to it initially and what exactly were the frustrations that were instilled in the child before that age. Obviously again I donít know. But the unconscious sometimes leaves clues. You say that ìin a perfect world you could sit home and cater to herî. Were you able to do that in her infancy? If not, did you wish you could have? This is just one possibility. The absence of the mother will stir up varying degrees of anger and insecurity in very young children. If your response to the ensuing ìterrible twosî was not to understand the essence of what she was trying to communicate, she may have just carried on, getting more and more frustrated and more and more extreme in her behaviour.

Certainly sheís trying to upset you. This suggests that you have once upset her and she now wants you to know what it feels like. Iím sorry to be so blunt, but that is a basic tenet of psychotherapy. Whatever is actually being communicated non-verbally is important. If she is driving you mad and you find her hurtful, spiteful and vindictive, then it is likely that somewhere deep in her emotional reservoir she has had those feelings about you. The question is why and how to you resolve them. This doesnít mean that you have been hurtful, spiteful and vindictive towards her, just that she has interpreted your actions (or lack of them) this way from her own unique childís perspective.

Iím not sure why, but I have the impression that what you need to do and unconsciously long to do is to ìsit home all day and cater to herî. Given a month of constant presence, unconditional love, lack of punishment, censure, blame or conflict, your childís behaviour might modify considerably. As a mother you may long for this. But on the other hand if you were raised in an emotionally illiterate household, you probably are still longing for this from your own mother. If so, it would be the hardest thing in the world to give this to your daughter. It would trigger so much loss from your own life.

Obviously I could be completely wrong and you may just need medical help, or a strategy to train your child like a dog or a soldier. Both are probably available. I wouldnít advocate it, but many others probably would and their opinions may be more informed and experienced than mine and certainly deserve time and respect. In my experience though, problems with childrenís behaviour has been due to problems in parentsí reactions to childrenís behaviour, which in turn was due to unprocessed emotional residue from the parentsí own childhood. Clearly the one thing we can agree on is how desperately difficult and upsetting this is for you and your family. You have my deep sympathy, even if it may sound otherwise at times.

If you would like to pursue these ideas further then would you like to tell me more about how your two daughters were raised in their first year or two of life?

[Stacie]

I know that my last message seemed like I was a cold heartless person. I am not. I love and care for my children with everything inside of me, if I didn't care I would not have bothered to find this site and asked for help.
When my oldest daughter was an infant I was more or less home with her the first year. My parents owned a family restaurant and I helped out. My daughter was always with me. Soon after her 1st b-day I decided to go to school so she entered day care. She adjusted very well and made lots of friends. When she was about 16 months old I found out I was pregnant again. I was then completely a single mother. When child #2 was born it was a big adjustment, unfortunately I was not able to stay home with her. She was about 6 weeks old when she started day care. Do I wish that I could have stayed home with her? Heck yes. but that just wasn't going to happen. I did struggle financially, like most people do, but I did provide for my children. They always had what they needed and mostly what they wanted. When "Kate" was 2 she became defiant. She threw temper tantrums like I had never seen. I was embarrassed to go out in public fearing that she would behave like this. So is and always have been demanding- she wants what she wants when she wants it- otherwise..... I have tried time outs, I have tried charts, I have tried talking, yelling, grounding her from her favorite things and I even tried to ignore the behavior and so far, its getting worse. I will not say that I am a perfect mother because I am not. But I love my children and will do anything to keep them safe. Right now I am lost. I don't know what to do. I have tried to raise my children to be respectful and honest. Kate tries to make things more difficult and tries to be spiteful.
I am lucky because I am home everyday when my kids come home from school. I am here to ask about their day and do homework with them. We recently started a "chore"list and so far it is working. Although cleaning their room still seems to be a task. My mother is unfortunately not with us today and I miss her deeply. She passed away (wow, its been almost 3 years). "Kate" was very close to my mother and that is when I did notice the behavior getting worse. My father hasn't been the greatest role model in their lives nor their own father. I have been the only one who has completely provided for them. I try to be a mother and a father and everyone close to me says how strong I am and how I am a great mother to my kids but sometimes I feel like I am going to fall apart. I never thought that my parenting skills was the reason why my child is the way she is. I am not sure how to feel about this?! Should I continue blaming myself, laugh, cry, scream??? What do I do now???? I, myself have a form of depression and currently take Lexapro. I have a low self-esteem to begin with and I have always tried to make sure my kids had extra love and attention to make sure they don't have low self esteem. So everything I have worked so hard at all seems to be a waste of time. HELP!!

[Benjamin Fry]

Wouldnít it be great to grow up in a village surrounded by families and relatives that kept you both supported and in constant touch with your children? Thatís roughly how our species had lived for about a million years. But then we got civilised. Your post illustrates so well the difficulties that this progress can cause. Inside you and your daughters are still just regular members of the homo sapiens species. Like your ancestors, you all crave the physical comfort of family when very young. Like your maternal ancestors, you crave to give this to your children. The dynamics of modern life make that very difficult for mothers and children alike. Sadly now in our modern culture, you are the norm, not the exception.

You raise here a very difficult and very important issue for parents (and thank you for being so honest). On the one hand most parents have the thought that they would do anything for their children. On the other hand most parents find it quite unbearable to recognise anything that they have done which may have not been ideal for their children. The culture of ìblameî and ìguiltî gets in the way. This creates a great paradox, since often the very best thing for a child is if its parentsí admit that they are not perfect, have made mistakes and can apologise. This is almost unthinkable to many parents ñ again I think because of the blame and guilt that gets associated with it.

I donít see any blame here. I donít think you are guilty of anything. However I do think that the upbringing that your children have had will have had consequences on their emotional development. Thatís absolutely standard. Any of the following may have been an overwhelmingly difficult emotional issue for either of your children:

- not being with you when young
- you being a single mother
- your motherís death
- your depression
- your relationships with men other than the girlsí father

None of these things are your fault, even if you were involved in the actual causal chain that led to them happening. However none of these things were your daughtersí fault either, and they were actually just innocently at the end of this causal chain. They have the right to have negative feelings about all of this. And if no-one is around to hear those feelings, or if no-one who is around can bear to hear about those feelings, then they will have no alternative but to contain those feelings and show them in other ways.

You obviously did not have a perfectly nurturing childhood and like any mother want better for your own children. However your own low self-esteem may make it terribly hard to face the fact that you (like many others) may not actually be the perfect mother. Perfection is impossible. Fallibility is human. Your children will forgive you. You will forgive yourself. But you do need to ask for it.

Your seven year old has had a lot to deal with in her short life, according to your account. I presume there was a divorce and a new marriage. There was a death, and now a new birth. And sheís been away from you for significant amounts of time since she was six weeks old. That deserves some compassion. No one is going to give it to her but you. Compassion is felt with the heart. If you can stop your head examining and judging her behaviour, you may be able to observe her with your heart and then see not just her spitefulness, but also her pain. Thatís probably all she wants.

The other problem you may have is the inevitable power struggle that exists between members of the same sex in all families. It is likely that you and your daughters vie for control. You each want to be able to be the one to effect the outcome that you desire. You tell yourself you should win because you are the adult. They try to win because then they can usurp you and allay their anxieties about their vulnerabilities. The reality is that the only way to win this game is to stop playing. That takes incredible reservoirs of patience, courage and love.

You have the tremendously difficult task of being everyone in this family for these girls. Donít beat yourself up if you canít do it all perfectly. No one could. What you can offer your children is the humility to accept that they may not be ok with everything you do or have done. Thatís not their fault and itís not yours either. It is just life. Forgiving yourself and forgiving your child, and hoping for the same from them is really the only parenting skill you need. The rest is all just froth by comparison.

It may be that your seven-year old has suffered when very young from the absence of you and the absence of a father and that this never resolved itself during the ìterrible twosî. Certainly if these absences remained during that period, there would have been little opportunity to show you what she wanted to communicate at that age. The subsequent death of your mother, who may have become a maternal attachment object substitute, seems like it could also have come at a very bad time for her. She needs company to work through these difficult feelings, not opposition to demonstrating them.

On a practical level, I might suggest that you steel yourself to stop criticising, punishing and judging her. Instead play a game of imagining that every time she does something horrible, she is actually saying ìIím terribly, terribly upsetî. If she was actually saying these words, then I suspect that you would react differently.

Thereís nothing easy about this for you, and possibly nothing easy that you can do to quickly change the situation. Iíve tried to give you an opportunity to understand one way of having an awareness about what is going on. Feel free to reject it as complete nonsense if you like. I havenít sugar coated it to make you feel better. Iíve given you the information that I think you may need to have a happier family and home. You want change in your childís behaviour. Iím certain that the first step towards this will be change in your own. Itís not a personal criticism, just a reflection of the way that the emotional mechanism of the human race works. Iím sorry if itís hard to take and I respect the love and effort that you have given to your family. Your presence in this forum proves how sincere that is.

[Stacie]

I read everything you wrote and it makes a lot of sense. So I thank you for your honesty. The thing I need to know, how do I change who I am, or how I think, what do you think are my down falls? What do I need to do to make things work in my family? ALso when my 7 year old throws herself on the floor kicking and screaming because she doesn't want to take a bath what do I do?
My husband and I did discuss one on one time with the children. This weekend he is off and I plan to take my 7 year old out for hot cocoa and pie at the local diner. On Sunday, it will be my 9 year old's turn. I wish there were more hours in a day to complete everything I want to do.
Just to let you know, if I make a mistake, I do apologize to my children. I let them know that adults make mistakes too, but the important thing is that you learn from them. As I said, I am not perfect. and I don't expect life to always be perfect, but sometimes I want some content moments. Is that too much to ask for?

[Benjamin Fry]

Taking your questions one by one:

- I donít really know enough about you to tell you how to change or who you are. As youíve seen, I had to fill in the gaps with guesses, some of which were wrong or inappropriate here. However Iím left with an impression that there is an impossible bind that you face between putting in enough time to make your life cohere as an adult and putting in enough time with your kids. This may have been worse in the past and at sensitive times for them. But they are still very young and there is plenty of time ahead. I think what I would warn against is instant results or even appreciation for your efforts. If you put in the time trying to understand the real meaning being communicated behind this behaviour, chances are that all you will hear for a while is a screaming rage of insults. But it will get better. The difference is that you will be trying to be there for her specific feelings, rather than just being there, or being generally open to communication. Itís a subtle difference but if you find that way to show her that you are really ready to understand both her actions and her words, you may find that she can respond quite gratifyingly. Children are much more flexible than adults emotionally. The sooner you can connect with her the better.
- Let her scream and kick. When (if) sheís finished, tell her that you have noticed from her behaviour that she is very angry and that you wouldnít mind if she told you why. Then when you are done, ask her if she wants to take a bath. If she doesnít, you have a choice to make. If you are insisting on the bath then warn her that you will shortly have to take her body to the bath and wash it for her. If she would like to avoid that she can go herself. Following the next tantrum because of the bath, start again. Thatís why it takes the patience of a saint which is not always easy on the tight schedule of a family. Think about giving your schedule room for this kind of hold up.
- Hoping for a bit of contentment is entirely reasonable. I hope you get it.

Good luck with the one-on-one. That sounds like a really great idea. If anything positive comes from it, congratulate yourself. If anything negative, then you may want to see this as an expression of how much they may have wanted this in the past. Usually when I get some time with my wife, Iím distant and grumpy at first. Then I realise thatís just because Iím pissed off that Iíve been missing her so much.