Dear Ben,
I just read your recent post where you made a point about how men being unable to express anger toward their mothers could be linked to an interest in pornography. Would this mean then that most men are angry with their mothers, er, if you see what I mean?! Could you please talk a little bit more about it? I guess I don't have to say why I'm curious to ask.
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Anger at mothers?!
#2
Benjamin Fry 
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Posted 06 October 2004 - 08:41 PM
An interest in pornography can mean different things. Generally Iíd have to say that there is (as usual) a sliding scale here from the benign to the extreme.
All men have a physiological reason for seeking orgasm. There is literally a build up of matter in the male genitals that requires evacuation. This is the reason for ìwet dreamsî and also why the longer itís been, the easier it is, if you get my drift. Therefore some interaction with items which facilitates male masturbation does seem to be a staple part of the male adolescence (when these physical processes are more virulent). Where it goes from there can depend on the other layers of physiological interaction that we unconsciously make use of in the potent arena of sexual behaviour.
Pornography itself takes different forms. Mostly all of it (I would argue) is on some level exploitative and therefore carries with it some moral issues which you may like to consider. However some of it is much worse than others. Iíve seen spam e-mails arrive in my inbox which have purported to represent pornography, but they have been so extreme in their language and in the acts they describe that all I can see there is anger, hate and misogyny. A teenage boy might appreciate a soft-core representation of the finer aspects of the female form, but it seems that this can develop into a use for the degradation of women that is both simultaneously punitive to women in general and highly arousing for the user. It is in this latter aspect of aggression towards the female archetype that I suggest a possible link with unresolved resentment of a mother figure.
Unfortunately it is probably true (psychologically) that many men carry unprocessed resentment towards their mothers. Boys are initially very resentful that their mothers are partnered with their husbands (which is the genesis of the Oedipal complex) and it is certainly true that this can often leave a deep wound of betrayal. The typical processes of childhood can then build on this initial injury and yet there is rarely a forum for safe resolution of these feelings. The mother often provides the only real unconditional love and safety in a childís life, so it is often hard for negative feelings to be aired for fear of losing this one vital resource.
In your case perhaps you could think about what you really get from using pornography? What are you really releasing? Is it physiological or psychological? If the latter then there are better ways to go that wonít threaten your eyesightÖ
All men have a physiological reason for seeking orgasm. There is literally a build up of matter in the male genitals that requires evacuation. This is the reason for ìwet dreamsî and also why the longer itís been, the easier it is, if you get my drift. Therefore some interaction with items which facilitates male masturbation does seem to be a staple part of the male adolescence (when these physical processes are more virulent). Where it goes from there can depend on the other layers of physiological interaction that we unconsciously make use of in the potent arena of sexual behaviour.
Pornography itself takes different forms. Mostly all of it (I would argue) is on some level exploitative and therefore carries with it some moral issues which you may like to consider. However some of it is much worse than others. Iíve seen spam e-mails arrive in my inbox which have purported to represent pornography, but they have been so extreme in their language and in the acts they describe that all I can see there is anger, hate and misogyny. A teenage boy might appreciate a soft-core representation of the finer aspects of the female form, but it seems that this can develop into a use for the degradation of women that is both simultaneously punitive to women in general and highly arousing for the user. It is in this latter aspect of aggression towards the female archetype that I suggest a possible link with unresolved resentment of a mother figure.
Unfortunately it is probably true (psychologically) that many men carry unprocessed resentment towards their mothers. Boys are initially very resentful that their mothers are partnered with their husbands (which is the genesis of the Oedipal complex) and it is certainly true that this can often leave a deep wound of betrayal. The typical processes of childhood can then build on this initial injury and yet there is rarely a forum for safe resolution of these feelings. The mother often provides the only real unconditional love and safety in a childís life, so it is often hard for negative feelings to be aired for fear of losing this one vital resource.
In your case perhaps you could think about what you really get from using pornography? What are you really releasing? Is it physiological or psychological? If the latter then there are better ways to go that wonít threaten your eyesightÖ
visit benjaminfry.co.uk for more information on my work
support getstable.org for better mental health treatment in the UK
support getstable.org for better mental health treatment in the UK
#3 Guest_Guest_Trying_*
Posted 10 October 2004 - 06:50 PM
Dear Benjamin,
I still appear to need the comfort of this site, so that tells me I'm still searching, but I can definately say since the things I wrote in June I see things differently. The major change has been that I have learned to separate myself from my problems. I have read many books by some of the most influential spiritual writers and thinkers of the last century, and it seems to have done more for me than the more pychological approach of therapy and self-help. The major breakthrough has been to de-personalisze 'me' from 'my probems'. This has changed everything. This is not the same as trying to tell myself everything is in my head and there isn't actually anything wrong with me, but has rather helped me to accept I am a mind/body organism that can go wrong. Talking on your site about the various manifestations of my emotional blockages has helped bunch them together. So I have touched on my operation as a baby, my social fears, my complete inexperience with sexual relationships, my obsessive habits, and lastly my addiction to pornography. You said I showed all the classic hallmarks of poor psychological health, which actually made me feel good! It's what I longed for someone to put their finger on. I can see clearly that my system is stuck, and I want to do something about it.
I was in the book shop the other day flipping through the psychology section again, when I stopped myself. "There you go again. Stop it. The answer isn't in a book." I guess even the greatest writings in the world are simply there as food for thought, to distract and engage our minds - but they are NOT life. They are a representation OF it. I need life for real. Perhaps if I set myself the task of going to a hundred parties and sleeping with a hundred people I would be a changed person the other side, but that is not going to happen! I recognise that a moment's reflection as I had in the book shop still won't change the fear habits of mind that I have learned throughout my life. I have noticed that I literally tighten-up and my back goes tense in most social situations, even around my close family when we're talking about anything emotional, or anything that I am unconsciously sensitive about. I'm actually doing it now as I write this. Even (and this is really wierd...) if I am 'enjoying' myself with friends, I get tense because I don't feel used to feeling happy and accepted, so I still can't really enjoy it. I know as well as anyone what real relaxed enjoyment feels like, and I know I don't experience it often. I also gesticulate too much when I am nervous, which to me is a clear sign of tension, but it is also unconscious, and the knowing that I do it still doesn't allow me to control it. The trying to control it often makes it worse. The physical state of my body is always proof positive to me that I am not in any way 'better'.
So my thought is this - if I can help my body, will my mind follow? You have, of course, already touched on this in your responses, but the physical things I've been choosing (jogging, meditation) are all solitary! I am still avoiding people. I went to a group meditation once and felt so self-conscious while I was meditating, that I never went back!!!
I still appear to need the comfort of this site, so that tells me I'm still searching, but I can definately say since the things I wrote in June I see things differently. The major change has been that I have learned to separate myself from my problems. I have read many books by some of the most influential spiritual writers and thinkers of the last century, and it seems to have done more for me than the more pychological approach of therapy and self-help. The major breakthrough has been to de-personalisze 'me' from 'my probems'. This has changed everything. This is not the same as trying to tell myself everything is in my head and there isn't actually anything wrong with me, but has rather helped me to accept I am a mind/body organism that can go wrong. Talking on your site about the various manifestations of my emotional blockages has helped bunch them together. So I have touched on my operation as a baby, my social fears, my complete inexperience with sexual relationships, my obsessive habits, and lastly my addiction to pornography. You said I showed all the classic hallmarks of poor psychological health, which actually made me feel good! It's what I longed for someone to put their finger on. I can see clearly that my system is stuck, and I want to do something about it.
I was in the book shop the other day flipping through the psychology section again, when I stopped myself. "There you go again. Stop it. The answer isn't in a book." I guess even the greatest writings in the world are simply there as food for thought, to distract and engage our minds - but they are NOT life. They are a representation OF it. I need life for real. Perhaps if I set myself the task of going to a hundred parties and sleeping with a hundred people I would be a changed person the other side, but that is not going to happen! I recognise that a moment's reflection as I had in the book shop still won't change the fear habits of mind that I have learned throughout my life. I have noticed that I literally tighten-up and my back goes tense in most social situations, even around my close family when we're talking about anything emotional, or anything that I am unconsciously sensitive about. I'm actually doing it now as I write this. Even (and this is really wierd...) if I am 'enjoying' myself with friends, I get tense because I don't feel used to feeling happy and accepted, so I still can't really enjoy it. I know as well as anyone what real relaxed enjoyment feels like, and I know I don't experience it often. I also gesticulate too much when I am nervous, which to me is a clear sign of tension, but it is also unconscious, and the knowing that I do it still doesn't allow me to control it. The trying to control it often makes it worse. The physical state of my body is always proof positive to me that I am not in any way 'better'.
So my thought is this - if I can help my body, will my mind follow? You have, of course, already touched on this in your responses, but the physical things I've been choosing (jogging, meditation) are all solitary! I am still avoiding people. I went to a group meditation once and felt so self-conscious while I was meditating, that I never went back!!!
#4
Benjamin Fry
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Posted 12 October 2004 - 05:42 PM
Well meditation can seem a bit weird at first. However most people do most of it with their eyes shut, so for a social situation it does have its advantages for the reclusive!
I think that a gentle yoga class (preferably more towards the meditative end than the cardio) would be an interesting challenge for you. It could help you with your physical symptoms (particularly in the back), it is social, but it is also very structured and therefore easy to blend into. I have found it to be a great tonic for anxiety and the physical symptoms that you describe which often go with it. Once you get through the resistance to the first class or two it can bring great benefits. It also gives you something to return to on your own, or just in your own head, in time of need. And it can be an interesting way to meet other people who share you own interests in questions of the self.
I think that a gentle yoga class (preferably more towards the meditative end than the cardio) would be an interesting challenge for you. It could help you with your physical symptoms (particularly in the back), it is social, but it is also very structured and therefore easy to blend into. I have found it to be a great tonic for anxiety and the physical symptoms that you describe which often go with it. Once you get through the resistance to the first class or two it can bring great benefits. It also gives you something to return to on your own, or just in your own head, in time of need. And it can be an interesting way to meet other people who share you own interests in questions of the self.
visit benjaminfry.co.uk for more information on my work
support getstable.org for better mental health treatment in the UK
support getstable.org for better mental health treatment in the UK
#5
Trying
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Posted 14 October 2004 - 10:19 PM
Yes, I think I would certainly be more interested in the more meditative side of it. Otherwise I'd probably be like lots of others who go along to yoga for the first few weeks feeling really chuffed with themselves, and then can't be bothered to do all the exercises when I get home!
Do you really feel that something like yoga could be an important part of the 'unearthing frozen emotions' proccess? I guess my questions will only be answered when I finally do something about it. I have been reading more and more about childhood trauma being some of the most difficult to resolve, because a lot of the trauma-therapies require the re-experiencing of certain memories, which is next to impossible when you have no memory of them. If, as I have speculated, my hospitalization/operation as a sick baby are linked to my current difficulties, then I don't really know where to begin. Also, the strongest argument against this (which my oh-so-understanding family have been quick to suggest, thus crushing my little great hope!) is the fact that everyone goes through the difficult experience of birth, which must be similarly traumatic for a tiny baby.
Would you agree that negative and positive emotions are flip sides of the same coin? I think that there is only one energy continually expressing itself through us, and it is a positive one. But when it gets trapped it manifests on the surface as a negative, in the form of compulsive habits, phobias, excessive negativity and addictions etc. When I look at my whole life from a distance, with this in mind, it all makes sense. This can be liberating or make me feel like I'm close to a breakdown! I often feel like I'm continually treading a fine line between being completely happy, and completely distroyed. I can bob along thinking I'm alright, but then I suddenly reflect and think "Oh my God, you poor sad w@#ker!"
My mother has never been the easiest to talk to about insecurites because I recognise that she has so many of her own. But I think it's made harder still by the fact that she has been such a good mother in a million ways. Am I correct in thinking this may cause invisible problems all on their own? I'll try and explain this a little better. I have never rebelled in anyway. I was always good, polite etc, and I've always been extremely sensitive to the fact that my mum has always tried her best, having been a single mum since I was 5. The truth is, she was a fantastic mum who took us out, did creative things with us; basically bent over backwards to ensure we were happy. We were never spoilt or anything, but we were important, I guess. However, my thought is that I also learned that I didn't have the right to be pissed-off, rebelious or difficult. I've always been of the opinion that difficult, rebelious teenagers are very very healthy teenagers. How else does one become independant? In other words, it is of the utmost importance that, no matter how wonderful your parents were, you learn to say "sod off" to them. I have never ever shouted at my mum, because whenever I've come close, she can always out-do me with the "after all I've done for you stuff." If I slam my door, she'll slam a door louder. This will upset me and as I know she'll do this, I usually refrain from even testing the water. I bottle things up. I know she's right (after all she's done for us I shouldn't complain), but my point is that it doesn't matter how irrational or insensitive you're being - it's for your own sanity and freedom that you express yourself. A point worth mentioning is I am aware that if there are 2 parents, it is completely different. Then, perhaps I would have screamed at them more, knowing they'd have each other, and I my freedom. But my mum is on her own and doesn't have this comforting figure in her life. I am sensitive to this so would never hurt her. Can you shed any light on this? A Freudian analyst would perhaps have a field day 'cos it sounds like I'm talking about my wife or something! But let's not go there...
Do you really feel that something like yoga could be an important part of the 'unearthing frozen emotions' proccess? I guess my questions will only be answered when I finally do something about it. I have been reading more and more about childhood trauma being some of the most difficult to resolve, because a lot of the trauma-therapies require the re-experiencing of certain memories, which is next to impossible when you have no memory of them. If, as I have speculated, my hospitalization/operation as a sick baby are linked to my current difficulties, then I don't really know where to begin. Also, the strongest argument against this (which my oh-so-understanding family have been quick to suggest, thus crushing my little great hope!) is the fact that everyone goes through the difficult experience of birth, which must be similarly traumatic for a tiny baby.
Would you agree that negative and positive emotions are flip sides of the same coin? I think that there is only one energy continually expressing itself through us, and it is a positive one. But when it gets trapped it manifests on the surface as a negative, in the form of compulsive habits, phobias, excessive negativity and addictions etc. When I look at my whole life from a distance, with this in mind, it all makes sense. This can be liberating or make me feel like I'm close to a breakdown! I often feel like I'm continually treading a fine line between being completely happy, and completely distroyed. I can bob along thinking I'm alright, but then I suddenly reflect and think "Oh my God, you poor sad w@#ker!"
My mother has never been the easiest to talk to about insecurites because I recognise that she has so many of her own. But I think it's made harder still by the fact that she has been such a good mother in a million ways. Am I correct in thinking this may cause invisible problems all on their own? I'll try and explain this a little better. I have never rebelled in anyway. I was always good, polite etc, and I've always been extremely sensitive to the fact that my mum has always tried her best, having been a single mum since I was 5. The truth is, she was a fantastic mum who took us out, did creative things with us; basically bent over backwards to ensure we were happy. We were never spoilt or anything, but we were important, I guess. However, my thought is that I also learned that I didn't have the right to be pissed-off, rebelious or difficult. I've always been of the opinion that difficult, rebelious teenagers are very very healthy teenagers. How else does one become independant? In other words, it is of the utmost importance that, no matter how wonderful your parents were, you learn to say "sod off" to them. I have never ever shouted at my mum, because whenever I've come close, she can always out-do me with the "after all I've done for you stuff." If I slam my door, she'll slam a door louder. This will upset me and as I know she'll do this, I usually refrain from even testing the water. I bottle things up. I know she's right (after all she's done for us I shouldn't complain), but my point is that it doesn't matter how irrational or insensitive you're being - it's for your own sanity and freedom that you express yourself. A point worth mentioning is I am aware that if there are 2 parents, it is completely different. Then, perhaps I would have screamed at them more, knowing they'd have each other, and I my freedom. But my mum is on her own and doesn't have this comforting figure in her life. I am sensitive to this so would never hurt her. Can you shed any light on this? A Freudian analyst would perhaps have a field day 'cos it sounds like I'm talking about my wife or something! But let's not go there...
#6
Trying
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Posted 15 October 2004 - 11:18 AM
Dear Benjamin,
Actually, reading over everything you've said before to me, I think I'm probably just making you repeat, in various ways, what you've already articulated very clearly to me in previous posts. You've given me the tools, but I have to do the work. I think, as I've made very aware to myself in my most recent post, that it is clear that the family environment is not the best one for resolving emotional difficulties. After all, that is where they were cultivated and sustained, and one's relatives rarely change in their attitudes toward you. You continually frustrate yourself attempting to change them, perhaps? It's hard at the moment, because I'm stuck at home again, having lived away for 8 years, and I have very little money - really not even enough to cover a weekly yoga class. I'm expected to pay for my keep at home, and when I say I haven't the money, you can imagine the reaction when I consider galavanting off to various £30 an hour therapies.
To meet me you'd no doubt wonder what all this fuss is about. I'm really a much more normal person than the traumatised, neurotic, masturbating maniac I seem to have described myself as!!! If I can laugh at how rediculous I've made myself sound on this website then maybe that's a step forward.
Actually, reading over everything you've said before to me, I think I'm probably just making you repeat, in various ways, what you've already articulated very clearly to me in previous posts. You've given me the tools, but I have to do the work. I think, as I've made very aware to myself in my most recent post, that it is clear that the family environment is not the best one for resolving emotional difficulties. After all, that is where they were cultivated and sustained, and one's relatives rarely change in their attitudes toward you. You continually frustrate yourself attempting to change them, perhaps? It's hard at the moment, because I'm stuck at home again, having lived away for 8 years, and I have very little money - really not even enough to cover a weekly yoga class. I'm expected to pay for my keep at home, and when I say I haven't the money, you can imagine the reaction when I consider galavanting off to various £30 an hour therapies.
To meet me you'd no doubt wonder what all this fuss is about. I'm really a much more normal person than the traumatised, neurotic, masturbating maniac I seem to have described myself as!!! If I can laugh at how rediculous I've made myself sound on this website then maybe that's a step forward.
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