[careerchallenged]

My 36 year old husband is on the verge (or so we think) of being fired from his seventh job--every job he's ever had since college. Before I continue, let me explain that I see my husband as a very kind, gentle person with an outgoing and warm personality. As far as I can tell, our friends and family do as well. Apparently he comes across this way in interviews too. But obviously this is not the case on the job.

His first job out of college he did not get along with the boss and was "layed off." His second job, his boss hounded and hounded him, his main client refused to work with him and he was forced out. His third job lasted the longest--maybe because of a very tolerant and patient boss. Eventually, the organization declared bankruptcy and he was one of many layed off (though the only in his department) while I was 8 mos. pregnant His fourth job was not going well with his boss but ended abruptly anyway when the entire office closed down. After many months of unemployment this time, he found another good job. This fifth one ended within weeks because he and the boss could not get along. The boss complained that an intern could turn out better work than my husband. They agreed on a severance package. His sixth position was also good. After a few months in the position, several VPs began to complain about him to his boss. Then others began to complain as well. His boss gave him two warnings. He gave him an assignment at the end that was sort of a test. My husband failed--got it to him late because he was spending unnecessary time confirming small details and making it pretty. He was offered a small severance package there the day they escorted him from his desk and out the door--while I was 4 months pregnant. His seventh, and current position--for which I found on the net, revised his resume, wrote his cover letter and sent in for him--was going well for about a year--as far as I know. Just the last few weeks he has been working long hours on some huge project. He went to talk to the boss about the hours and she went to the owner of the company. The owner called him in and told him that this was his job and if he couldn't get the project done on time then he wasn't doing his job. Since that day last week he has been working even longer hours trying to get it done. Once again--his boss doesn't seem to care. I am just waiting for the bomb to fall.

I am a stay at home mom but worked in the same field as my husband before I quit--advertising and PR. I think I was very supportive of my husband until he lost the sixth job. It took me that long to figure out it was him--not the bosses he was complaining about.

Regardless, there are several things they have all complained about:
1. lack of time management skills
2. lack of political saviness
3. overpromising and underdelivering
4. lack of organizational skills
5. perfectionism--wasting time on minutia instead of pumping out the work

There are several things he has complained about:
1. overabundance of work (he stayed late--we're talking like 11 pm and 65 hour work weeks sometimes--at EVERY job he's had regardless of the position)
2. boss not training him
3. coworkers not cooperating with him, therefore making it harder to get work done

At the same time--he has kept a positive attitude (he's been taking celexa prescribed by his PCP to help him "deal") and said he's like every job he's had--even with the difficulties. One time one of his bosses literally kicked him out of the office and my husband said, "you don't mean that" and wouldn't leave at first. He's a hard worker and certainly not lazy. But somehow, he just can't seem to the get the job done or please the boss. WHY???

I am confused as to why he can be perfectly charming in social settings and then be failing so miserably in his career? Is this something clinical? I am assuming he can't help himself?? After the sixth lay off I forced him to see a certified career counselor and then a psychologist specializing in careers. They helped a little--enough for him to make it an entire year at the new job before an incident (as far as I know). But something still isn't right.

I just don't know where to turn. This is tearing me apart on many levels. First, he hasn't been home in two weeks because he's been working so hard on a project that his bosses believe shouldn't have taken this much overtime. I need a husband and a father for my kids! Second, I am having trouble conceiving that this is happening again. It's a nightmare. I am embarrased and ashamed for him. My friends don't know what to tell me because this is unchartered territory--even for friends who've been laid of or fired. Third, I can't believe that I didn't know this about the man I married. Fourth, I am scared about our future financially and emotionally. Fifth, I am resentful that it looks like I will have to finally give in and go back to work to support us.

Please--what is wrong with my husband? What should he do? (We need resources--FAST.) How can I deal with it?

THANK YOU. I don't know where else to turn.

[Benjamin Fry]

Thatís a very interesting story and thank you for explaining it so clearly. Iím quite messianic in my view that anything that repeats itself in life is doing so for a reason ñ and that the reason is with us. Here two things are happening; first, your husband keeps getting laid off, and second, your husband keeps getting laid off. No, thatís not a typing error. One cycle of events is happening to your husband and another to you. Thereís two people here going round and round together. The question is why and how can you change.

Your husband isnít the one writing into the forum, so I can only speculate about him. He may or may not agree with your account and may or may not want to do anything about the problems. Briefly though, it would seem that there is an issue here with authority and perhaps also the correlation between what he does for a living and who he really is. I wonder about his relationship with his father and what profession his father had. Could it be that he is (unconsciously) grudgingly taking on work that should please a father that he (unconsciously) resents? If so his only possible outlet for these feelings would be to show them by ìacting outî, or getting fired. Here is a perfect example of the conflict of the conscious and unconscious mind. The conscious mind wants steady employment to provide resources to survive. The unconscious mind wants to use his work as a vehicle to emotional release. The more the unconscious mind is actively helped to come into conscious awareness, the less trouble it will need to make for him at work! Let me know if thereís anything that you can come up with from his family background which might be relevant here.

You however are in the forum and you are looking for both help and change. The interesting thing is you present your only problem as your husband. This is unlikely to be the whole truth (sorry). You are also trapped in a cycle. What emotional release is this trying to achieve for you? What feelings to you associate with these constant job-losses? Can you remember the earliest time in your life that you felt like that? Can you tell me more about that time and the people it relates to? You cite embarrassment and shame. Was this ever a theme in your early life? Does it have any relevance in your relationships with your own father or father figures?

On a practical level it would seem that there have been solutions available for these issues that perhaps werenít taken (or perhaps could not have been). You mention that you could work but donít want to. Perhaps also your husband has thought of doing different work but never been bold enough to follow it through, or even perhaps articulate it. It is unlikely to be dumb bad luck. Thereís a lesson here that you are both trying to learn ñ on an unconscious and emotional level. If you can access the issues that underlie this lesson, then you will find that your external reality begins to shift automatically because this cycle of shame and insecurity will no longer be needed.

To do this you need to start to talk about the possible traumas in your life that may be relevant here. Can you speculate for yourself and your husband? The earlier in your lives that they started, often the harder they are to identify, but they will show themselves throughout your life by the patterns that you have lived through. Let me know and Iíll see if I can help further by speculating on some links between the past and your present Groundhog Day.

[Rimu]

whoa, bipolar is a big call i would have thought.

[Benjamin Fry]

Issues of success and failure seem to loom large in your family history of your husband. These successes or failures are both real and theoretical. They are happening, or projected. Money has been made and claims have been made. The structure of American society makes financial success often a more pressing concern that in some older societies that take their social cues in different ways. So your husband (and you) grew up in an environment where being successful in a career perhaps was a prerequisite of both familial love and societal acceptance.

Ideally these kinds of pressures would be left at the doorstep of the family home. The idea of unconditional love and acceptance would be the best model for a family to show to its children. This would provide some balance to the rat-race outside the home. I suspect that your husband may have not felt properly valued for his skills. It sounds like he is a very decent human being, but perhaps not cut from the family high income mould. If money was the way that people were being valued at home, then his own particular attributes may have been discredited. As a result he maybe finds it hard to value in himself what is actually valuable to the world. Then thereís not much left.

Iím wondering how he feels when he gets fired. Iím wondering particularly how it is for him to tell his mother and father. I accept that there is superficial embarrassment and shame, but wonder if perhaps underneath that there is a satisfaction taken in causing them some embarrassment and concern. There has to be some emotional payoff for this repeated behaviour, and if you can locate it, then you will have an opportunity to divert it to a different arena ñ like direct counselling on the issue.

Another point to consider is that we often set up in our marriages a mirror of the dynamics that we left in our family home. Without suggesting that you are identical, it may be that your own underlying attitudes to wealth and success are in some ways similar to his parentsí. He may therefore also be unconsciously punishing you for not valuing something in him that wants to be noticed and considered worthwhile. You are very nice about him on one level, but it must kill him that you also see him as an object of shame for the family. If you didnít mind about money at all (and I mean at all, at all) then you would look at your husband and see nothing but kindness. This would be reflected in your treatment of him. However you also see a failure. He will of course notice the difference. It may be hard for him to consciously admit to this, or even notice this, but the unconscious message that he is giving by his actions is basically giving you and his family the middle finger when it comes to your material goals in life (either through real wealth and success or the ability to brag about it ñ which may be why he stopped the medical school).

If it is a resentment for not being appreciated for who he really is that underlies his behaviour, then he needs to start to talk about this on a conscious level, and perhaps you can help him by giving him the permission that he probably assumes isnít there because of his upbringing. I suspect that you can give this to him, and that you would be strong enough to hear what he really has to say.

Your description of the long hours and attention to detail also suggests to me that he is burying himself. I project from this a lifetime of burying his real feelings. This is easier to achieve while becoming (perhaps pointlessly) immersed in something to the point where you no longer really exist.

Why donít you bring this up with him and see what comes up? I suspect that your own attitudes to status and society may also become part of the puzzle. If he is able to articulate his feelings on this topic, it may create uncomfortable issues for you. Thatís ok. Just stay with your feelings and give yourself some time and space to air them once you feel that he has had his say.

I'm not big on labels or initials. I'm a fan of people having feelings and those feelings being given the love and space to safely express themselves. Others may disagree and thier opinions are also very valuable.

[careerchallenged]

Hi--Me again. Careerchallenged Again, you've brought up some things to think about, Benjamin. Thanks. I think you are right about all the expectations, etc.

I wanted to respond particularly to the money. When my husband first started losing jobs we were in a smaller home with a small mortgage. About 1.5 years ago we built a new home and now have a much larger mortgage. We built it because we both love architecture and everything that goes into building a new home. It is a passion we share and I'm thankful for it. On the other hand, when it comes to money I am very conservative and would have rather stayed in the old house where we had less to worry about.

And from the beginning we always agreed that I would stay home when we had children. And I always told him that I didn't care if we had to live in a trailer to make it work. I grew up with a successful father, but we always lived like paupers. We lived in a tiny little ranch that my father built with his dad. My parents still live there. My husband's parents were always house poor, ate at fancy places, wore designer clothes, etc. Not us. So I don't think of myself as hard to please in that respect. If he has felt pressure to live large it is from his family for the most part.

BUT, now that we are in this beautiful home, I must admit that I do love it. I really don't want to lose it--although if he said he wanted to get something smaller I don't think I'd put up a fuss. Regardless, this means I've been putting more pressure on myself and therefore him to try to be able to stay here. Actually, maybe it's because the thought of moving again with two small children is exhausting. But anyway, his mother has told us she will help us out if she has to so that we can keep the house. (She LOVES to brag about it--although it's only about 1/2 the size of theirs and the brother's.) She has also volunteered to pay for my husband to go back to school and switch careers. So far he says he won't do it. He says he doesn't know what he'd do. He thinks he loves his current career and wouldn't want to do anything else. I think he would make an excellent teacher because children just love him and he loves them. Seniors also love him and he would be great working in a nursing home or doing something to help others in general. I've encouraged him to do something like that--despite the fact that it would pay less--because I think he would love it.

I guess you should also know that besides our house, we have no debt. Our cars are paid off and we hold no credit card debt. We also have a nice savings (that we are slowly depleting). It is for these reasons as well that I don't think he feels any urgency. It makes me angry though--because we have this financial security because I am SO CAREFUL with money. I would ideally like this savings to be SAVED for our retirement (we have little saved for retirement) and our children's educations.

I agree with you that he his burying himself in his work. I had not thought about it in that way. He certainly has had to bury his emotions his entire life though--he admits that now and we've often talked about it. His mother was "needy" and his father was her "enabler". The entire house revolved around her and her wants and needs. (ie..The woman has never once pumped her own gas.) In the beginning of my marriage she and I were not getting along (surprise) and my husband said he was so used to ignoring her and going along with her that he didn't even noticed how often he was doing it. (I DID.) She and I have come along way since then but of course, she'll never change.

His brother was also the center of attention in the house. He needed more attention academically and socially and therefore my husband was expected to fend for himself. The attention always was diverted to his brother. Even now, the parents will laugh at the brother's jokes--even if they are embarrassingly at the expense of another person's feelings. He also beat up on my husband--physically and mentally, and his parents would tell my husband to ignore it or get over it or just didn't understand what was really going on. They seemed to encourage unhealthy competition between them. This makes my husband angry even today. And now that the brother is working for the father's company--he's even more golden. So he had to bury his thoughts and emotions even when it came to his brother.

Going back to the money--I agree that he may not be made from the high income mould. On the other hand, I'm just looking for him to make AN icome. I don't care what it is!!!! I'm worried that he is not going to make it ANYWHERE because of some fatal flaw(s). That is the reason I don't think the answer is for me to go back to work. Not only will I resent him, but it will not solve his problems--only bury them or postpone the innevitable. If I work for a year while he stays home he's right back in the same position in a year. I suppose if he decided he was going back to school that would be different.

Well, I've had a stream of consciousness here I guess. What do you think? THANK YOU!!

[Benjamin Fry]

Thereís two things here that I really like ñ your dedication to creating your home and your family. The house is actually a very strong metaphysical metaphor for yourself and your psyche (you singular and plural) and your desire to raise your own kids shows that you want to be at the centre of that in a very grounded way. This says to me that you want to create a new, clean and nurturing emotional reality for you and your husband and kids. Well done for going for it.

Actually it now seems to me that your husbandís problems are very easy to understand. He was an outsider in his own family and suffered considerably due to his parentsí natural favouritism towards his better adapted older brother. This will have accrued a great deal of resentment towards them all, but he didnít grow up in an environment where this could be discussed and so he needs to find another way to articulate his hurt, anger and pain. And so it is that he unconsciously strikes at what they hold most precious ñ money and status. He is hurting them by ìfailingî and they are suffering both emotionally and possibly also financially. Of course this is also affecting you, but the reality is that until your husband has resolved the issues from his childhood, heís not 100% ready to be a husband and father.

Ideally he needs to sit down with his family and articulate his grievances and feelings. This may be impossible, so he should try to do the same exercise, but just with them not in the room! It can be done and is very effective. A counsellor can help. Thereís no easy fix here. It might take a week. It might take a decade. It might take a lifetime (or many). However if he starts to express himself in a conscious way then wonít need to use these unconscious ways to bring the family into the same conflict that was originally traumatising him in relation to his parents, brother and notions of success (and wealth). Iím not surprised therefore that he refuses parental help to find a stable career; after all, then what would he do to punish them?

Thereís another point here though that Iíd like to raise, which is that you and him may be repeating the patterns of his parents. It is possible that he is unconsciously playing the needy role that he learned from his mother and that you are enabling this. After all, it is you in the forum, not him. Again this is something that it would be good to bring out of the psychological playground and into the conscious realm of emotional openness. You have a part to play in this too. Perhaps you are spending too much time trying to make sure everyone else is ok? Is it possible that you too are afraid of your own feelings? Would fixing your husband so that these feelings donít happen seem like a better plan than processing your own feelings? Thereís obviously something key about keeping the plan on track for you. Did the plan ever falter earlier in your life? Did you cope? Did you deal with it?

[Benjamin Fry]

You might benefit from addressing your issues with authority. If you are at the start of your working life then you are inevitably going to be bossed around and sometimes it might be for no good reason. It seems that you are reacting to situations in ways that are inappropriate in the office.

Instead you need to identify what from your earlier life casued this backlog of resentment and to apply the angry behaviour in this true authentic direction. The more you do that, the less you will need to act up at work.

For example, perhaps the problem is with your father. Therefore every day before you go to work (or to an interview) go out and hurl stones at a tree yelling your resentment out loud. Then have a nice day and be pleasant to even the most irritating colleague.