[NFS]

Hi there

I have been compelled to write as a few things seem recently to have conspired to push me in this direction. I found your website a few months ago & as a result bought your book & was bought a couple of your audio books, which have certainly been thought-provoking. Coming to your website today I randomly stumbled over a post from my sister - I sent her the book & she found your site from there (we were both "SPendaholics"-aholics beforehand - loving your work!)

I have wanted to post here before, but something has stopped me. Now I am trying to move forwards with my life & thought that this might be one way of helping that. I am not quite sure where to start - you will know a little of my past by my sister's description (Katy- March 2010) - although of course my experience was different to hers. I was the "good" one - a good baby, favoured by our mum I guess because of this. I managed to slip undder the radar of what was going on at home a lot of the time - not least by being pony-obsessed & from the age of 11-15 either at school or at the stables. But nonetheless my childhood has taken its toll. I am now Mum to 2 little girls & have found that since I had the first one - my childhood / upbringing has been thrown into sharp relief & raised many questions for me. WHat I hate most is that I have found myself being like my mum in ways I wish I wasnt. Yet although I can see I am doing it, I cant seem to stop it.

Over the last few years I have managed to identify lots of things that I think have impacted on me - in fact which have direct links to how I am now - yet I seem unable to move on. I am now at the point where I know my relationship is in jeapardy, my head is in a tizz & I worry that I will adversely affect my own children.

I will try to be succinct with my main issues:

- I was a workaholic & perfectionist. I have left jobs I was excelling at because I didnt think I was doing well enough - despite being told the contrary. I never feel good enough, I always feel like I am failing. At home when I was young I was always described as "working hard" ... and so I guess I do. But I never feel that that gets me anywhere. Recognition is not enough because I never come up to my own standards. I judge others harshly too, I know

The problem is I cant relax - I fill every second of every day. I am either full on or asleep ... & this in itself is, I know, an avoidance mechanism. It drives my husband crazy.

I also have a thing about "time" - there is never enough & I feel constantly pressured. I cant understand where people do find time to relax. Again, I remember one of the constant things at home being "we dont have time" - even though I am sure we did!

I am grumpy & snappish & push those close to me away - I didnt use to, but more & more over the last few years I have. Its like I just cant bear for people to be close to me / see the real me. I feel like I dont deserve love & attention, that you have to "earn" it (& I have done nothing to deserve it). I am particularly evil to my husband. I can remember years ago when we were 1st together him telling me I was perfect - the feeling of terror this evoked in me was quite ludicrous. Maybe it was because I felt I had to live up to that label? As my sister said - my mum was all about how we appeared & about us being "perfect" (maybe when hubby said it I wondered what would happen now I had attained this life-long goal: I had always strived for it, so what would I do now I'd got there? - I dont know, what I do know is that him saying that absolutely terrified me.) At other times when my now hubby praised me I would just think "please dont, I;m not that person. I dont know who you are seeing but its not me" I then set about proving to him how totally horrible & undesirable I was & have treated him really appallingly at times over the years

My sister mentioned that our dad was an alcoholic - & this really affected me. HOwever it was obviously unresolved for me & I have found myself in a relationship with someone who has a questionable relationship with alcohol - not alcoholic but does use it at times as a crutch - & this has sent me into spins of the most acute anger & frustration, far beyond the reaction relevent to the actual situation. It is only recently that I realised that (the majority of) my reaction was to my father - not my husband. Obvioulsy I have placed myself in this situation in order to deal with it.

With money - although I have appeared to be good with it, I am actually pretty rubbish. I have had a slight shopaholic tendency - just with cheap things (but lots of them) generally - but having the whole rush / guilt aspect. I think like my sister, it has been a bit about "dressing the part" - I have noticed I now dress my girls in certain brands which say to other people "look, my parents are successful" I also think that I have the whole "I dont deserve it" thing going on - I have tended to spend a small amount "because I cant afford it" often, rather than buy the more expensive item "because I dont deserve it" in actual fact, the more costly thing would have been greater value for money in a lot of cases - rather than buying several cheaper things. I also seem to do what one of the men on your "how to be rich" does - I get rid of any excess we have: I cant hold onto money, despite wanting to. Money also really worried me - it represents security. I become obsessed with how much we have wasted over the years or how much we could save on stuff. I know that you "get what you focus on" but I cant seem to help focusing on the negatives. I will also go to great lengths saving money on small things - saving vouchers for supermarkets etc, but have overlooked things to do with large purchases like houses & lost money due to being unsavvy with interest rates etc - this is partly due to a lack of understanding in the past about these things, but also to a large degree a lack of care & judgement I think. Again, I think it all ties into the "I dont deserve it" "I must work hard" "life is difficult" "i want never gets" set of beliefs i have grown up with. I dont think I could ever truly feel secure however much I had - it never feels enough to make me safe. Another aspect of our childhood was having no money at all.

I had a quick look at the overview of the Pia Mellody books you recommended to my sister - and one thing struck a chord there, with her saying that parents can falsely empower their children - as I got older I always felt like the parent. I thought up money-making schemes, organised car-boots & made my mum drive us to them. Managed & motivated the family. Was the one in the foreground organising things & pushing my "victim" / passive mother to do things. It was me who took her to the solicitors to get her divorce. I took control & tried to make things happen.

So many things have come up for me recently - there are specifc areas that need addressing, the thing is that I seem to have pinpointed a few areas, but knowing how to move forwards is another story - I am not sure where to start. I did read your book, & although I found it made sense & it was helpful, I think I rushed through it a bit & need to re-read it to full clarify things. I have found your audio books helpful, but havent listened to them in a while. I find it hard to talk to people - especially those closest to me & worry about what people will think. I am "successful" I have a nice house / car / family / job etc, but I am feeling a real mess (again). Over the last 12 years I have had bad patches, been on medication, had a little bit of CBT (which helped, but I feel I need more to address things than simply learn methods to make my thinking more positive) - but have not moved that far forwards. I find that my head is in a constant spin, I am pushing away people close to me & my answer is to submerge myself in the practical - I just keep doing stuff so I dont have to think / deal with things. Even as I though to write this post I got uP & put the washing out / some more on ... saw plenty more I could be doing but forced myself to sit back down & do this rather than make the excuse that I was too busy. My husband says I need to spend more time on me, doing what I want, making myself happy ... but I have got to the point I dont know who I am / what I want / what makes me happy. I feel disconnected from my life. I know I have a good life but I cant feel it. And I just always think "I dont have time ... this needs doing ... that needs doing ... the world will fall apart if xyz doesnt get done." I can always put a barrier between me & sorting out the real issues. I did do something yesterday though, I contacted my father (who has taken it upon himself after pretty much 15 years of no contact to visit occasionally since I had children) & asked him lots of questions - he came back pretty much straight away with some answers & it felt kind-of cathartic. I guess that that is a move in the right direction to being able to put certain things to bed?

I am thinking of going to the drs & asking for anti-depressants again, but I am not sure that this is a good option? I understand your view that depression is a symptom, not an illness in itself & that it is the underlying issues that need to be dealt with. I know that once I take the pills I will feel ok about stuff - which will probably enable me to ignore the issues again & therefore stop my quest for information that may help me ... however I have a life to live, a husband & 2 children's lives who are at stake too - I feel rubbish & I take it on them by shutting myself away emotionally & snapping & being grumpy. I know there are no magic answers but I want the greatest good for the greatest number ... I'm not quite sure what to do. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[Benjamin Fry]

Sorry for the delay in replying. We have had some technical problems in the forum.

I read your post and I think trauma, trauma, truama. You will find all the answers in the work of Peter Levine, which describes the trauma mechanism, and in the work of Pia Mellody which describes the outcome for an adult.

In addition you tick many of the boxes for an Adult Child Of an Alcoholic for which there is an excellent 12-step support group ACOA and related literature. Also consider Al-Annon.

Medication is an important part of the solution for very sever cases, but should be seen as a bridge to treatment rather than treatment itself, ideally.

You should investigate EMDR and SE trauma treatments and practitioners. The former is googled at EMDR UK and the latter from googling Peter Levine and looking at his website. I can recommend a practitioner in Richmond, London if you like.

It is all quite straightforward in theory, and rough, hard work in practice. People do recover, their reactivity lowers, they relax, their relationships improve, their life opens up and serenity comes in. But the first steps are the hardest.

If you want recovery badly enough, you'll get it. The good news is that in the last ten years a real cure has begun to emerge, and if you follow these steps you'll find it.

Best withes,

Benjamin

[NFS]

Hi Benjamin

Thanks very much for your reply - at least I feel a little less like I am going crazy, knowing that there probably IS reasons for how I feel! I was actually hoping to update my post before you got back to me, as I have been making notes over the last couple of weeks & was going to add in my thoughts ... so I will do it here anyway & if you are able to reply then that would be great!

First, re your recommendation of a practitioner - I am not in the London area, but up north ... I was wondering if you would recommend use of one of your Happy Hour Practitioners? There are a couple up my way ....? Or do you think something else would be more beneficial?

Anyway ... my jottings from the last couple of weeks (sorry, some of this may reiterate some of what I have already said!)

Putting the practical very much before the emotional - I dont seem to be able to deal with emotion within myself or others - despite in the past (& on the inside) being a really emotional person - emotion scares me & in tough situations I block everything out & just get on with practical things: cooking, cleaning etc!

I have got to the point where I just cant feel things - & am scared if I do it will open a well & it will overwhelm me. Sometimes I feel the tip of a feeling & kind-of congratulate myself, but dont let it go too deep.

I am a control freak & am scared I am turning into my mother - make it all look rosy on the surface & sweep everything under the carpet. Lack of control = fear. Lack of control as a child meant the inability to change the situation & having no power over my life. Our opinions werent listened to & I was frustrated. I can remember thinking up all sorts of money making schemes when I was as young as 7 or 8, & being so frustrated before the age of 14 that I couldnt work to make things better financially.

I am a list-maker to the extreme, & a planner - but then often dont stick to my own detailed lists / plans / rules ... which then makes me beat myself up. As a child there were no boundaries/ No real parent / child relationship. There were rules, like "being good" but no firm boundaries. No cause & effect. As a teenager I can remember my sister yelling "for gods sake, give me something to rebel against!" I think we both felt it. As I got older I kind-of created my own boundaries - I guess it felt better to have them, even though they were self-ikmposed. Then I did my fair share of "rebelling" which really didnt get much reaction - except for upsetting my mum. No law-laying still. I have a much younger brother & sister & very much took a parental role with them - trying to put in place boundaries & rules for them, as my mum I think had pretty much given up. I did a lot wrong (for which I feel really guilty now) but it was a case of someone had to try & take some control - & I was the only one prepared to do it. However in the end I was simply told "they're not your kids - back off" and so I did - choosing not to rock the boat rather than stand up for what I believed was right (another of my mum's traits) I try to dot all the I's & cross all the T's of EVERYTHING & get really cross when I cant - when I cant do it all. But then I ignore the really important emotional things. Do I not really want the control? Why can I SEE all of this but not change it?

I get "itchy" (mentally) all the time & want to have big clearouts / change things. In the past this feeling has made me move house / change jobs. Although actually I am not that good at dealing with change - so why do I want to change stuff? Now I am more rational & react less severely & it just engenders things like having a big clear-out ... however I am RUBBISH at chucking things out! I want to make changes / clearout make things tidier & I hate the mess ... but something stops me from having a big clearout - I tend to do little bits at a time. I hang onto things I neither want nor need just because I find it really hard to get rid. I think this relates directly to my emotional state: I know what I need to do but something is stopping me from letting go / doing it. I keep things (clothes) that I dont like & wear them just because I have got them - they make me feel rubbish but I persevere because its a "waste" not to. But then that means I am NOT wearing the nice stuff! I can see this relates to hanging onto old beliefs / ways of being rather than changing & feel better. Is this part of the self-flagellation / "I dont deserve it" mentality? I have self sabotaged for as long as I can remember - messing up anything that is good. I feel guilty when I enjoy things. I go over & over old rubbish rather than create new good things - it really is crazy when I see it in black & white! As you say - the theory is easy, the practicality of changing it is harder. When I get near to having what I want I often just freak out & mess it up. Another thing I have noticed is a buy things "for the future" its like if its not for now, then its ok - but I end up with loads of things that arent right / dont fit / I dont like when I come to wear them.

I have an overrriding feeling that I am just doing life wrong. The time thing is a big issue for me - just feeling like there is never enough. I constantly regret things & beat myself up - mainly at the moment over tangible financial things, although at other times it has been over other areas of my life - I think about how things would have been different if I had done xyz instead.

One thing I have noticed recently is that I dont seem to like the feeling of being needed. It actually scares me. Not a good feeling when you are a parent! I guess maybe this could go back to my mum leaning on me so much when I was young .... I dont know .... it is all just supposition really isnt it? I dont want to lay blame I just want to understand & move on. It sounds probaly to you like we had a pretty hideous childhood, but compared to a lot of people it wasnt so bad. I know that. and I know that my life now is good. Its just that I feel stuck & I just want to be released from this cage & get on with my life. I want to stop the introspection & the questioning & just enjoy myself. But I have come to the conclusion that in order to be able to do that I am actually going to have to introspect more in order to get out - kind of like when you ARE having a clearout the house gets messy before it gets tidy, because you are emptying all the cupboards. I want a quick fix, I know I do, & I know I am not going to get that, but I need some help - I cant see any SE practitioners in my area, which is why I was wondering about Happy Hour??

Any thoughts appreciated!

[NFS]

I have just had a look at the ACOA website - scarily I do fit a lot of the characteristics. I'm really quite surprised. I have found a group that meets near here, so maybe that would be a first step.

thanks

[Benjamin Fry]

I suggest that you make it to as many ACOA meetings as possible for a few weeks, and also look into Al-Anon meetings.

A Happy Hour would definitely be a good idea. You could follow it up with some EMDR on the issues that come up in that session (did you find anyone who does that near you?).

If you feel that some medication could help you through this process then that is worth considering, but discuss with your doctor the idea of taking any dosages slowly and starting low. Treatment of the trauma is the goal. Medication is just a bridge to get you there, if necessary.

Benjamin

[NFS]

I want to ask a few questions. It is a while since I last posted & a lot has happened. I have done a lot of thinking & in some ways I think I have moved on. In others I don’t think I have. The same issues keep going around & around my head. I would really like some answers to some questions.

Why am I constantly looking backwards? Being dragged into the past? REGRETTING things – especially financial? I have a comfortable life (although it has been a struggle to get to this point) & a kind & lovely man & a family – however I constantly regret the WRONG decisions I made in the past. Especially regarding money. When my partner & I had been together a short while, we almost bought a house together (& this was when property was cheap). Then, for various reasons we didn’t. By the time we did, house prices had reached their peak. There must be 100’s of people in this situation & I surely should be able to say “c’est la vie” – but instead it really, really bugs me and I spend a lot of time thinking “what if” – our lives could have been so different. I feel so stupid for “getting it wrong” and go over all the things that would be better about our lives if we had bought at the “right” time. Life would just have been easier, a lot of the rows would not have happened as they were due to money, we would be in a better place. I may not have had to work when I had young kids. I could afford to have a bigger family. I feel even worse because some of the reason possibly that we did not buy earlier is because of something that happened with me that jeapardised our relationship & took a lot of coming back from.
Money has always had a big import in my life, and the theme whilst I was growing up was “we cant afford it” - & it is like I have just carried that with me as my blueprint: assuming we couldn’t afford to buy a house (when we could) without even looking into it. But this in turn took us into a situation whereby we COULDN’T really afford it, but DID get a mortgage and then subsequently ran up debts because we were so skint. We have slowly dug ourselves out but it has been a hard slog & I just keep thinking WHY? WHY were we so stupid? Why did we buy when we did? (when my partner had just left a career & was starting over again & had taken a pay cut). As I tend to be the driving force for things in the relationship I feel a lot of it is my responsibility. I also feel like in a way, I have driven us into the very place that I feared being: struggling for money, in debt etc. Is it that actually, I felt more comfortable there? We made “bad” decision after bad decision & got in a right mess.
But now – now we are out & should be feeling better about things, I still just cant help harping backwards & regretting those decisions that led us down that road. Why?? I just want to turn the clock back & change things. I realise now that each decision we make in life has such huge consequences for our future path – the ripple effect. Because of a few bad decisions in my early twenties, 10 years later I am still paying a large price (eg working when I could have had that time with my young children) – and it affects my family, because I get really down about it & beat myself up. I cant talk about it because my husband is a “what’s done is done” type of person & just gets on & deals with day to day life. I know I should just be able to enjoy the now & learn from my mistakes for the future, but I find it really hard. I am not totally responsible for the debts etc – he is the type of person who just doesn’t open bank statements etc so he ran up charges & debts, but I do carry a lot of the burden of responsibility for making bad decisions. I also do wonder if there is more to it than just being badly educated about finance & not having the type of parents who could guide me. I wonder if it is partly my psyche trying to deal with a childhood where lack of money was always paramount & we were constantly told “we’ve got no money. We cant afford it.” In which case – how do I change? What can I do to move myself FORWARDS??? The feeling of responsibility is huge – I believe that life is what we make it, that chance doesn’t play a part – but then that lays a lot of pressure on you to “get it right”
The other issue is that I feel like my relationship is mirroring my parents – and again, I just want to change it but I don’t know how. I feel trapped – but like I have very carefully laid the trap for myself & locked myself into exactly the situation I would really rather have avoided. I have read Gareth’s posts over the last few years with interest and I now wonder, like him, whether my relationship has been a vehicle to help me to see (if not yet totally resolve) certain issues & whether I should move on for both our sakes. The problem is that we have small children. I don’t know what would be worse: to stay & for them to grow up where there is anger & resentment & regret (but also a lot of love and stability – we don’t row loudly or in front of them & on the surface are a lovely, loving family) – or for us to split & for them to grow up with 2 loving parents who happen not to be together. I fell head over heels for my husband and loved him I like I had never loved anyone. He is kind, sweet, loving & puts up with a hell of a lot. He is a great father & would do anything for his girls. He is supportive & tries to understand & support me. He adores me (I think still) – despite us having had an extremely difficult relationship at times. Despite me being extremely difficult. But I don’t know that we are actually very good for each other. We have a major fall-out about every 6 months now, where I go into melt-down & then slowly we come back from it.
I guess what I want is a fresh start – but I want a fresh start from myself. I would love to go back to being 20 & re-do everything. Better. Of course that is not possible. I want to know how to RID myself of all the unhelpful feelings.
What worries me is that I can see a lot of things that have affected me, & the behaviours / situations which have occurred because of my past – what I cant seem to see is how to change so that I do not KEEP on re-creating those situations. Is it a case of finding a way to dispose of those emotions – eg issues in my relationship: I really need to talk to my Dad while he is still around. Issues with money – what do I do? I can see some of the cause & effect, but not the way out of the current situation.
Sometimes I am better at staying more “in the moment” & just dealing with day to day stuff, but very often my mind slips back into the past & goes over & over all the places where I messed up: emotionally, financially, practically. I KNOW it is not healthy. I KNOW I cannot change the past, no matter how hard I wish I could, & I KNOW that by going over & over it I am simply using up energy that could be spent on creating a better present & future … and yet it keeps happening. I guess some of it is trying to work out connections so that I can avoid them in the future? But some of it is simpy recriminating myself over & over again. And it just makes me distant & moody & irritable – as I go over & over how stupid I am, how things could have been better. I KNOW that things may NOT have been better. That money doesn’t buy happiness. That the issues in my relationship would still have been there whether the money issue was there or not (although I think things may have been easier if we had had more cash – as money was a major source of stress & arguments) – but then again, I think maybe the whole money / relationship thing was there maybe to force me to deal with things from my past. As I say, we had no money when I was growing up, there was also a whole issue about my Dad being crap with money - & my (now husband) is / was too – so there is the start of me re-creating my parents’ relationship. I know at times I have made my husband feel worthless – another mirror to my parents’ relationship. I have caused emotional distance between us – again; like my parents. I can SEE all these things – but how do I change them? I feel like I want to get out, I want to start afresh – put the whole rubbish section behind me …. But that’s not fair. (1) because my husband is a good kind lovely man who doesn’t deserve to be left (though neither does he deserve a grumpy frustrated angry repressive wife), & 2, because we have 2 beautiful daughters to think about. And 3, because I know I would only be changing the external things – unless I have learnt enough in this relationship to be able to do it differently in another? But then if I could do it differently in another, why can’t I just do it differently within this one? Say “Ok, that’s the past. I made a lot of mistakes but lets leave it there – let’s just look forwards.” And I would still regret the past - maybe more so because I could add destroying my marriage to the list of things I regretted. Some days I manage to be positive, live in the present & the future – but then I veer back round to how things could have been if I hadn’t been so rubbish generally, & with money).
I am driving myself crazy and I need to know how to break the cycle. I think I am getting better practically with money – that comes with age & experience I guess, & I spend less emotionally; but I need to stop the regret. The “what if’s” the “it would all have been ok if only we’d …. “ I don’t automatically think “we can’t afford” – and things do seem to have eased. One thing I realised very recently was that there were points in my life where I felt great fear of something happening (mainly us not having enough money) – but then they happened & we just dealt with them (& also that although I feared it, I was instrumental in steering us into that actual situation). Was that chance – was it naivity & lack of sound advice / taking bad advice – or was it my psyche pushing me to deal with what I feared most?
As someone who feels responsible for everything, I do get the whole idea of projection etc & that we cause our own situations – but it just makes me feel 100 times more responsible for everything. I think that is why I feel so rubbish about the past – because I feel like it is all my fault. I can see where & even why (at some points) it went wrong & just beat myself up, over & over again about it.

I just want a break - I want to stop feeling like this. I am like a junky who instead of getting clean & moving on, I have got clean but keep thinking "God, all those YEARS I wasted" & sits around getting depressed about it (although I dont sit about, I am pretty active!!) I want to think less & just get on & live & enjoy my life. The thing is - that probably isnt possible is it? If there IS trauma etc there then I need to get rid of it & to get rid of it I have to focus on it - I just havent got time! I have a busy life & where does anyone find the time to work on "issues?" - unless they have a total breakdown & re-build? I have a job, a family, a life - I just want to be able to enjoy it all & stop beating myself up.

I have looked slightly into the work of Peter Levine & Pia Mellody as you suggested - but only a toe in the water. I guess I am going to be told I need to do more than that .... !

I am now adding at a later date ... I have just realised that I am totally furious with myself for basically making my life into the opposite of what I really wanted it to be. All I ever wanted to was to have kids & be a stay-at-home mum, yet I set about creating a life that was different to that. Although I have kids I am in a situation where I now have to work - because of the "bad" financial decisions we made in the past. The really ironic thing is that we were trying to build a good basis from which to have kids, but actually would have been in a better postion to have them much younger. I now find myself furious because I have to go out to work every day. I feel more than the normal guilt at leaving them in childcare / not being there at the school gates - because i feel that I have created this situation where I dont have a choice NOT to work. I feel like if I had done things differently then I could have had what I wanted. WHY did I make things complicated for myself? WHY did I not just go for what I wanted? Is it as simple as the fact that I never really got what I wanted as a kid? Was told "I want doesnt get" - is it that easy to translate? Or is is it more complicated? Was it because I dont feel I deserve to have what I want? I really need to find a way OUT of all these constraints which just seem to bind me & block me & stop me from getting to where I really want to be.